Jan. 24, 2025

Brian and Sonja Stafford Probable Cause Affidavit: Justice for the forgotten Children Part 2

Brian and Sonja Stafford Probable Cause Affidavit: Justice for the forgotten Children Part 2
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Season 1

What if the very place meant to be a safe haven turns into a nightmare? Join us as we explore the chilling details of the Stafford case, where abuse and fear ran rampant. With testimonies from Victims 2 and 3, we unravel a haunting reality of life on the Stafford farm, where children faced unimaginable conditions and were forced into labor from a young age. Discover the disturbing incidents involving Brian in a chicken coop and the pervasive atmosphere of terror that left Victim 2 seeking solace in others. This episode sheds light on the relentless courage of these young individuals, who have bravely come forward to share their harrowing experiences.

Riddled with systemic failures, the Stafford household was a breeding ground for unchecked abuse, with Sonia Stafford at the helm. Despite numerous pleas for help, she turned a blind eye, allowing Brian's molestation of multiple victims to continue. Through extensive interviews at Susie's Place, we uncover a grim picture of neglect and the harsh dynamics between Brian and Victim 11. We also unearth the severity of the punitive point system and the harsh treatment meted out to Victim 4. By examining these narratives, we stress the critical need for justice and further investigation into the Stafford residence.

Amidst the darkness, we highlight the unwavering bravery of the survivors whose testimonies have paved the way for legal action. With the shadow of suspicion looming over Cody Stafford's alleged suicide, we call for anyone with information to step forward. Our episode is a somber reminder of the importance of community support and solidarity in seeking justice for these victims. As we continue this mission, stay tuned for more revelations and updates on our upcoming YouTube channel.

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Disclaimer: All defendants are INNOCENT UNTIL PROVEN GUILTY in a court of law. All facts are alleged until a conviction!

00:04 - 69 South Podcast

12:20 - Brian Stafford Molestation Investigation

21:07 - Abuse Disclosure by Adopted Children

35:55 - Sonia Stafford Abuse and Control

48:21 - 'Summarizing Molestation Case and Seeking Justice

WEBVTT

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69 South 69 South 69 South.

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69 South 69 South.

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Welcome everyone to Podcast 69 South, where we discuss and discuss true crime, cold cases, current events and hot topics, along with our state of society today.

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This is your trigger warning.

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Our podcast content is produced for adult listeners, 18 years of age and older.

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We discuss situations that may be offensive and triggering to some listeners.

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Sit back, relax and enjoy Happy Friday everyone.

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Welcome back to another episode of 69 South Podcast.

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I am Chop, your host, and with me always is my beautiful co-host, julie.

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Hello.

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This is part two of the horrible, horrible probable cause affidavit from the Stafford case.

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I got to say I don't know about you, julie, but yesterday I was kind of glad that the time was running out and we had to stop.

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Some of this stuff is almost unbearable to read.

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It's disgusting, it's really disgusting the way these children were treated, but we got a lot to still go through, so we're going to jump right back into where we was yesterday, because these are two special episodes.

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We ended with a question, so once again, if you're new to this little series, julie is playing the state attorney and I am playing the lead investigator from Morgan County Sheriff's Department.

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Go back to the questions.

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What did she disclose about Brian and what happened with her?

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She disclosed an incident that took place in the chicken coop on the property.

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She talked about how Brian would touch her under her clothes all essential of her body.

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Clothes, all essential of her body.

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She also talked about how Brian would use lotion and put lotion on his hands and touch her private parts under her clothes in the chicken coop.

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And then she also talked about how she described the creamy stuff that would come out of his private parts while they were in the chicken coop together, Jesus.

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Did she describe that essentially, what sounded like he would masturbate in front of her in the chicken coop?

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Yes.

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Wow, and did you get a sense from Victim 2's interview how many times this would happen with Brian?

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She had said pretty much any time that they were alone together he would do this to her.

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she had said pretty much any time that they were alone together, he would do this to her and did she make any statements in her disclosure?

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Something to the effect of it got so bad she started having other people go with her when she was out on the property.

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Yes, she did.

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Did she talk about an incident with the shower when she had been showering and she got out of the shower and Brian was standing there looking at her body?

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She did.

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She had talked about how she got out and Brian was there essentially just staring at her and looking at her.

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Did she talk about an incident where she saw something similar happening to one of her sisters?

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Unfortunately.

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Yes, she did.

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And what did she disclose?

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That she witnessed, she had disclosed that she came up.

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She did, and what did she disclose that she witnessed?

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She had disclosed that she came up.

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She was walking on the property, came up to the chicken coop and saw Brian down on his knees with her sister Victim 3, and he was touching her in her private parts as well and did.

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Victim 2, in her interview, give some sense of how old she was when the molest with brian started.

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Yes, she did.

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I suppose I can ask it a different way.

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Did she disclose or from your recollection of her suzy's place interviews, did you get the impression that the molest happened when she was under the age of 12?

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yes, she did yes.

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She said yes, she did Initially.

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When she found out about the younger children, she had apologized that it had happened to them there was a previous disclosures that we'll talk about later Apologized but told him that she could not turn Brian in, and so we've talked about victim two.

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Let's talk now about victim three.

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She is the second child that was removed from Brian and Sonia in May of 2024, correct?

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That's correct.

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Okay, and again, just to kind of orient the court where we are, victim.

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Three was the first group that was adopted with Indiana, the Indiana children in 2011,.

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Correct?

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That's correct.

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And I believe you had testified that victim three was about two years old when she was adopted by the Staffords.

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Yes.

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Okay, is she really the only child that we have that has been there since 2011 to 2024?

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That's correct.

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And so was victim three, also interviewed twice at Susie's place.

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Yes, she was.

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And the first time was immediately after they were removed, correct?

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That's correct.

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Okay, and then the second time.

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I think you had testified that victim two was interviewed in October of 2024 or November.

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Is that correct?

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Yes, october of 2024.

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Yes.

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Okay, Victim three was interviewed the same day the second time.

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That's correct.

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Okay, and so you've talked through victim two's interview and her disclosure about sort of a day-to-day schedule, the punishment things that were in place at the farm.

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Did Victim 3 corroborate much of Victim 2's disclosure?

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She sure did.

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And did you learn any additional information about sort of the day-to-day that Victim 3 disclosed?

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That helped kind of give you a better picture of what was going on.

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I did?

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What did you learn?

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That gave you a better picture.

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She kind of walked through a little bit about how her day started.

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She disclosed that her day started at 5 am.

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She would get up, she'd start doing her chores.

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She had some that were, you know, taking care of the animals that were on the property, sweeping and mopping the floors, doing dishes.

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She specifically mentioned that the dishes that she would normally have to do were the dishes that were left over from Brian and Sonia from the night before that they didn't take care of themselves.

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Then she talked about how she was able to eat breakfast and then continue through her day with school work and other chores that she had as well.

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And so, combining victim two and victim three's interviews that were conducted, did you get the impression that the girls were made to work from the beginning of the day?

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When they were told to wake up out on the farm, they had their chores, they had to do, they had their schoolwork and then, on top of that, they basically were there to take care of whatever Sonia deemed necessary around the house.

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That is exactly the impression that I got around the house.

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That is exactly the impression that I got.

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Did it seem that they were all doing work and Sonia was doing?

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essentially nothing.

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That's also the impression that I got.

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Okay, and so did she talk about the food regimen, the schedule that the three of them were forced to follow.

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She did Her disclosure on the food schedule was consistent with the others.

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Follow she did Her disclosure on the food schedule was consistent with the others.

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She did mention that the only time that there would be like a deviation or change in the schedule was if there was other food that Sonia was going to throw out, so basically garbage.

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So they had talked about food that was going bad, food that was rotten.

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Essentially it could have been given to the farm animals or the girls were allowed to eat it.

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So did we learn from Victim 3's disclosure where the girls ate their meals?

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Yes, we did, and where's that?

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They had to eat in a separate location.

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So they started eating in the barn, which the barn has a storage room where their food, their sardines, their Roman and stuff is stored.

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They had.

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Well, she initially talked about how they ate in the room and later on had talked about how they just sat on the floor out in the main barn and would eat and they weren't eating in the main residence.

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And I might be jumping around a little bit, but during the course of this investigation did you find yourself go out to the property that the Staffords owned?

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Yes, I did.

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And was there a functional dining room in their home that had space for the children to eat?

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Yes.

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But from their interviews did you learn that they were not really allowed to use that space?

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Yes.

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Did victim three in her interview talk about any injuries that she had sustained while in Sonia's care?

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She did.

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She had talked about some frostbite that she had sustained as a result of not being able to wear adequate clothing during the wintertime as a punishment.

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And I think you testified that during victim two's interview she had talked about they would be punished by only being allowed to wear their bra and underwear outside in cold temperatures.

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Was that consistent in Victim 3's interview as well?

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Unfortunately, she disclosed that to me as well.

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yes, and so I'm showing you what's been marked as States Exhibit 2.

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Is that the scars of the frostbite that was on Victim 3?

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Yes.

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Okay, and is that a picture that was taken by DCS, I think, on May 22nd of 2024?

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Yes, it was.

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Okay, and where are the scars?

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Just under the kind of you can see, just under the pant line where she's rolled them up for the picture.

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So mid-like shin just under the knee.

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And did she give you the impression that these were kind of a result of her farm boots rubbing against her legs?

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Yes.

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Okay, the court moves to admit Exhibit 2, and the state has now admitted that into evidence.

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So did she also talk about in Victim 3's interviews?

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Did she talk about the alarms on the bedroom doors that had came up in the investigation with the Oregon kids?

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Yes.

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And what did Victim 3 disclose about those?

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She talked about the alarms being on the door and if they were to open the door it would send like a loud noise throughout the home.

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If they were to open the door, it would send like a loud noise throughout the home.

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Some people who know, essentially, if they were coming out of the room when they weren't supposed to be.

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And did victim three also talk about schooling and what was required of them when they were living with the Staffords?

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Yes, she did.

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Did she disclose anything that stood out to you and that we haven't already discussed about the schooling they had to do?

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No, that part was pretty consistent among the children with their schoolwork.

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And did you get the impression from victim three that the girls were rarely, if ever, allowed to leave the farm?

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Yes, I did.

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If they were to leave, were they always with Sonia.

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Yes.

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Did victim three also talk about holidays, similarly to how Victim 2 talked about holidays?

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Yes, she did and what she disclosed consistent with Victim 2's disclosure.

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Yes it was.

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Was there anything that stood out to you that's different, that we haven't talked about?

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No, not to this point.

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No, not to this point and did victim three also between her two interviews talk to DCS or talk about DCS visits out to the Stafford farm and whether the children were required to lie or not tell the truth.

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Yes, she did.

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What did she?

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disclose about that.

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She disclosed consistently with the others that they were told to lie and receive threats of being separated, not being able to see their siblings anymore, and that Brian or Sonia could go to jail.

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And was that and was this a threat that was made again by Sonia to the kids?

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Yes, it was.

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Okay, did victim three disclose anything about Brian?

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She did.

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She had disclosed that Brian molested her also.

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Victim 5, victim 11, victim 6, victim 2, and Victim 4.

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Did you get the impression from Victim 3 that it was pretty well known in the family that this was something that Brian had done to most of her sisters?

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Yes, I did.

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Did she talk about how the molest had started with her when she was approximately seven years old?

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She did.

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What sort of molest actions did she disclose that happened with Brian?

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She talked about how Brian would touch her over the clothes on her breast.

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She also talked about an incident which he described as in the chicken yard, which we've determined was the chicken coop actually, where he had molested her, touched her private parts inside in the chicken coop.

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And was that the same incident that victim two had disclosed walking in on?

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Yes, it is.

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Did victim three ever disclose to Sonia what was going on with Brian?

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She did.

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And did she, through her interviews, explain what Sonia's reaction to the disclosure was?

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That was all pretty consistent too.

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She had apologized.

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She couldn't turn Brian in.

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In previously disclosures to Sonia, Sonia also accused him of lying about it, because Brian was confronted at one point about it and Brian essentially said that the girls were making it up.

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So Sonia took him at his or her word and told the girls that they were lying about all of it.

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And for clarification, I guess for the court.

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Did you get the impression throughout your investigation that all of the girls that lived there at one point or another went to Sonia and disclosed Brian had been molesting them or exposing himself to them, or and disclosed Brian had been molesting them or exposing himself to them, or something to that effect?

00:14:08.249 --> 00:14:16.447
Yes, and with Sonia throughout these disclosures with multiple children, was she not very receptive to those disclosures?

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Would that be a fair way to categorize it?

00:14:19.541 --> 00:14:20.142
Absolutely.

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Okay, and you mentioned that at one point she had told the girls that she accused them of lying.

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That's correct.

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Did Victim 3 talk about what Sonia's reaction was when she learned about Victim 11 and Brian's kind of quote-unquote relationship?

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She talked a little bit about it.

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Sonia was not happy when she discovered that Brian and victim 11 were in an actual relationship together.

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And I know we've talked about a lot of different kids and we have a lot of different timelines.

00:14:53.773 --> 00:15:06.134
But to kind of orient the court and make sure our record is clear, when victim 11 and Brian's relationship came out, was victim 11 still living with Brian and Sonia Stafford.

00:15:06.576 --> 00:15:06.816
Yes.

00:15:07.721 --> 00:15:20.971
And do we know from your investigation that that relationship was disclosed around victim 11's 18th birthday, which would have been in October of last year?

00:15:21.312 --> 00:15:21.572
Yes.

00:15:22.433 --> 00:15:29.972
Okay, and do we know what ended up happening after Sonia learned about Brian and Victim 11's relationship?

00:15:30.293 --> 00:15:30.594
We do.

00:15:31.360 --> 00:15:32.687
And what ended up happening.

00:15:33.360 --> 00:15:42.052
Temporarily Victim 11 went and stayed with Brad in Bloomington and she stayed there for several months after Sonia first learned about their relationship between the two.

00:15:43.520 --> 00:15:46.831
And so you said initially, kind of stayed with Brad.

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Did victim 11 end up returning to the farm?

00:15:49.647 --> 00:15:52.690
Yes, she did Okay and so she was.

00:15:52.690 --> 00:16:01.793
As you testified previously, she was there in May of 2024 when DCS came out and started kind of their investigation.

00:16:02.073 --> 00:16:02.293
Yes.

00:16:03.399 --> 00:16:07.586
So the third child that had been removed from Brian and Sonia.

00:16:07.586 --> 00:16:12.714
Victim four was she also interviewed at Susie's place two times.

00:16:13.075 --> 00:16:13.696
Yes, she was.

00:16:14.461 --> 00:16:19.130
And the first time was she interviewed pretty much immediately after removal?

00:16:19.130 --> 00:16:26.072
Yes, and then the second time, was it the second day as her older sisters?

00:16:27.563 --> 00:16:29.690
It was the second day as her older sisters.

00:16:29.710 --> 00:16:37.293
yes, and, just as a reminder, was victim four from the very last group of children that was adopted from Florida in 2015?

00:16:37.293 --> 00:16:38.394
That is correct.

00:16:38.394 --> 00:16:41.067
How old was she when she was adopted?

00:16:41.720 --> 00:16:45.974
Victim four would have been five when she was adopted when she was adopted.

00:16:46.014 --> 00:16:51.368
Victim four would have been five when she was adopted and were both of victim four's interviews at Susie's Place, the shortest interviews out of the girls?

00:16:51.388 --> 00:16:51.990
Yes, they were.

00:16:52.679 --> 00:16:55.509
What did she disclose about Sonia in her interviews?

00:16:56.221 --> 00:17:02.749
She had talked about the showers, that the shower schedule that they had, how they were only allowed to take a shower twice a week.

00:17:02.749 --> 00:17:08.251
She also talked about the button box, consistently with what the other disclosures were.

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She did mention that she would start off with 500 points each day and they would have to work out, work off.

00:17:15.009 --> 00:17:20.425
And then she would also talk about how Sonia would grab her by her face and squeeze her on her face.

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She would have scratches and stuff on her face.

00:17:23.760 --> 00:17:33.326
Did you get the impression from the older girls from victim two and victim three's interviews that victim four kind of got the worst treatment while they were living at the Stafford's home?

00:17:33.647 --> 00:17:34.249
Yes, I did.

00:17:35.151 --> 00:17:38.548
Her disclosure of starting off with 500 points.

00:17:38.548 --> 00:17:48.242
Was it your impression that victim four basically started off in the hole as the system was designed and that she was constantly having to work points?

00:17:48.564 --> 00:17:48.683
off.

00:17:48.683 --> 00:17:51.289
That's exactly the impression that I got.

00:17:51.730 --> 00:17:59.001
Did victim four have any injuries that we haven't talked about when they were removed from the Staffords on May 22nd 2024?

00:17:59.001 --> 00:18:02.008
I think you mentioned some scratches and maybe some bruising.

00:18:02.489 --> 00:18:08.507
She had some marks on her right thigh which I believe from her disclosure were wax from Sonia.

00:18:09.009 --> 00:18:12.363
And during Victim 4's second interview did she get emotional?

00:18:12.784 --> 00:18:13.345
She did.

00:18:14.146 --> 00:18:21.710
And did she tell the interviewer that there were things that she hadn't talked about, that she just really wasn't ready to disclose?

00:18:22.009 --> 00:18:22.530
She did.

00:18:22.530 --> 00:18:25.426
During the interview she started getting really emotional.

00:18:25.426 --> 00:18:40.326
The interviewer kind of brought it up, trying to see what was prompting the emotion, and that's when she said that there was things that had taken place and that she was essentially wasn't ready to talk about them yet Okay.

00:18:40.425 --> 00:18:50.733
So during the first round of interviews at Susie's Place, did it become apparent to you that there was going to be a necessity to go out to the house on 5600 Herbie Mont Road?

00:18:51.034 --> 00:18:51.275
Yes.

00:18:52.359 --> 00:18:55.448
And did you obtain a search warrant to do that?

00:18:56.230 --> 00:18:56.872
That is correct.

00:18:57.381 --> 00:18:58.759
When was this executed.

00:18:59.280 --> 00:19:03.371
It was executed on the 23rd after the Suzy's Place interviews were.

00:19:03.371 --> 00:19:07.384
Well, I apologize, we obtained it during the search warrant.

00:19:07.384 --> 00:19:19.685
During the interviews I have, in between interviews, coordinated with Detective Shane Norris and Corporal Zach Dodson to see if they could start executing the search warrant while they were when they were granted.

00:19:19.685 --> 00:19:29.192
So I actually coordinated with them after our first Susie's Place interview and they went with uniformed deputies and secured the residence and started executing it.

00:19:29.192 --> 00:19:36.134
Once the interviews were concluded, I went to the residence and assisted in the remaining time of the execution of the search warrant.

00:19:36.980 --> 00:19:46.653
And so was it kind of around maybe not even 24 hours after the girls had been removed by DCS that you were able to get a warrant and start processing the house.

00:19:46.894 --> 00:19:47.476
That's correct.

00:19:48.380 --> 00:19:53.512
And what was located at the property that belonged to the staffers during the execution of the search warrant.

00:19:54.320 --> 00:19:57.971
We had found cameras in the barn that were consistent with some of the disclosures.

00:19:57.971 --> 00:20:02.050
We also found the classroom area that the girls had talked about in the barn.

00:20:02.050 --> 00:20:09.211
We found the room off the main open area of the barn that, like they disclosed, their food was kept.

00:20:09.211 --> 00:20:14.692
We found variety packs of sardines, the ramen noodles, different soups.

00:20:14.692 --> 00:20:21.928
We did find some of the chore list in the barn and then we also found the button box in an office that was also in the main barn as well.

00:20:22.920 --> 00:20:26.871
And the sardines and the ramen noodles and those items that you talked about.

00:20:26.871 --> 00:20:33.409
Those were consistent with the food schedule that the girls had disclosed that they had to follow for three years, correct?

00:20:33.720 --> 00:20:34.924
That is exactly correct.

00:20:35.567 --> 00:20:40.170
Okay, was there anything that the girls had disclosed that you were not able to locate?

00:20:40.631 --> 00:20:41.292
Yes, there was.

00:20:42.000 --> 00:20:44.027
What were you not able to locate?

00:20:44.027 --> 00:20:45.510
That was part of their disclosure.

00:20:46.161 --> 00:20:49.270
We were not able to find any of the paddles described.

00:20:49.961 --> 00:20:59.732
And I know that we admitted a picture of one of the paddles, how many were located or how many were supposed to be on the property, based on the girls' disclosure.

00:21:00.660 --> 00:21:02.748
They said somewhere between four and five.

00:21:03.300 --> 00:21:06.209
And we were not able to find any of those correct.

00:21:06.569 --> 00:21:07.152
We were not.

00:21:07.152 --> 00:21:16.147
The girls had talked about how they were some in the residence, how they kept some in the barn, various areas of the property, and there was none located anywhere.

00:21:16.642 --> 00:21:23.711
And did you get the impression from their disclosures that Sonia would keep a paddle pretty much on hand anywhere that she needed it to be?

00:21:24.539 --> 00:21:25.560
Yes, from their disclosures.

00:21:25.560 --> 00:21:31.548
Basically there was one that was nearby, just in the event that Sonia would need to grab one real quick.

00:21:32.329 --> 00:21:32.490
Yes, yes.

00:21:40.960 --> 00:21:43.323
Essentially we took two laptop computers.

00:21:43.323 --> 00:21:45.265
There was also an iPad.

00:21:45.265 --> 00:21:56.257
A cell phone that was collected inside the residence and then also collected was Sonia's cell phone from her person, brian's cell phone from his person, as well as Victim's 11 cell phone.

00:21:57.000 --> 00:22:05.941
And explain to the court what the thought process was for taking those devices those devices.

00:22:05.961 --> 00:22:10.297
We took them because there was a belief that there may be communications about the events that had took place, communications about DCS and things like that.

00:22:10.297 --> 00:22:11.721
That's what we were looking for.

00:22:12.384 --> 00:22:21.553
And we'll talk about this a bit later but were those devices that were seized processed at a later date at a high-tech crime lab by Levi Minnick?

00:22:21.833 --> 00:22:22.454
Yes, they were.

00:22:23.397 --> 00:22:31.832
So we mentioned the minor children that were probably the most recent group that had been placed with the Staffords but were not ultimately adopted.

00:22:31.832 --> 00:22:37.170
You had testified about minor child one, who was the oldest of the three.

00:22:37.170 --> 00:22:43.468
Did minor child one have a Susie's Place interview during this investigation?

00:22:43.647 --> 00:22:44.068
He did.

00:22:44.750 --> 00:22:53.490
And just sort of as a reminder, I think you said that he was placed in 2022 as well as 2023 with the Staffords.

00:22:53.490 --> 00:22:54.772
Is that correct that?

00:22:54.853 --> 00:22:55.354
is correct.

00:22:56.200 --> 00:22:59.247
Okay, and when approximately, was he interviewed?

00:23:00.008 --> 00:23:02.554
I believe he was interviewed in June of this year.

00:23:03.080 --> 00:23:10.828
And what did he disclose at Susie's Place or his behavior at Susie's Place that you thought was relevant to your investigation?

00:23:11.450 --> 00:23:14.144
Well, he had talked about being put in timeout.

00:23:14.144 --> 00:23:24.510
He essentially, if he were to get in trouble, he was isolated to like a table or a chair and would have to sit there essentially until he was told that he could get up.

00:23:24.510 --> 00:23:31.705
When the interviewer started talking about physical things that had taken place at the property, his demeanor completely changed.

00:23:31.705 --> 00:23:35.741
When the interview started, minor child one was very appropriate.

00:23:35.741 --> 00:23:37.926
He was a happy 10-year-old boy.

00:23:37.926 --> 00:23:47.011
But then when the questions about specific things that may or may not have happened on the farm and at the property, minor child one shielded himself.

00:23:47.011 --> 00:23:48.674
He had a breakdown.

00:23:48.674 --> 00:23:55.289
He lifted his knees up to his chest and kind of shielded his face and had a lot of emotion about being asked about the stuff.

00:23:56.280 --> 00:23:59.570
Did he tell the interviewer that he saw the other kids in trouble?

00:23:59.570 --> 00:24:06.950
But he or get in trouble, but he didn't want to talk about it and tell the interviewer what he saw.

00:24:07.451 --> 00:24:07.992
Yes, he did.

00:24:08.861 --> 00:24:15.153
And we've already mentioned that the two younger brothers were not of any age where they could have been interviewed correct?

00:24:15.373 --> 00:24:15.953
That's correct.

00:24:16.500 --> 00:24:26.054
Okay, so you mentioned that there were older kids that had previously been adopted who showed up on the scene of the day.

00:24:26.054 --> 00:24:29.989
The Staffords had their three girls removed.

00:24:29.989 --> 00:24:32.709
You specifically mentioned victim five.

00:24:32.709 --> 00:24:35.688
Was she interviewed during the investigation?

00:24:36.009 --> 00:24:36.471
She was.

00:24:37.402 --> 00:24:38.606
And when was she interviewed?

00:24:39.099 --> 00:24:42.266
She was interviewed on May 31st of this year.

00:24:42.727 --> 00:24:51.508
And just as a reminder to kind of orient the court, what was the group of kids that victim?

00:24:51.567 --> 00:25:07.854
five was adopted with she was in the fourth group, which would have been a group from Florida, and so or I'm sorry she was the first Florida group, so she would have been technically the third group from 2013.

00:25:08.494 --> 00:25:10.037
Oh, okay, I apologize.

00:25:10.037 --> 00:25:15.530
So she was the group with victim seven, victim six and victim eight.

00:25:16.011 --> 00:25:16.613
That's correct.

00:25:17.299 --> 00:25:20.471
Okay, and how old was she when she was interviewed?

00:25:20.980 --> 00:25:22.988
She was 19 when she was interviewed.

00:25:23.028 --> 00:25:25.537
She was 19 when she was interviewed.

00:25:25.537 --> 00:25:31.692
Okay, what did Victim 5 disclose about how she was treated when she was living with the Staffords?

00:25:31.692 --> 00:25:33.019
That seemed pretty consistent with what you had already learned.

00:25:33.839 --> 00:25:38.112
She had talked about essentially the same things that the younger children had talked about.

00:25:38.112 --> 00:25:42.711
She had talked about the chore schedule, the food regimens, the schooling and things of that.

00:25:42.711 --> 00:25:45.540
It was all pretty consistent with the other disclosures.

00:25:46.000 --> 00:25:56.145
Did Victim 5 also mention that the adopted kids were typically not allowed to participate in Family Day, that Sonia would have their biological children there?

00:25:56.486 --> 00:25:57.086
Yes, she did.

00:25:57.426 --> 00:26:00.407
Did Victim 5 disclose anything about Brian Stafford?

00:26:01.028 --> 00:26:01.469
She did.

00:26:01.469 --> 00:26:03.329
She disclosed sexual things.

00:26:03.329 --> 00:26:05.289
That happened with Brian.

00:26:06.631 --> 00:26:11.192
And what did she disclose about when the abuse started and, kind of, when it ended?

00:26:11.913 --> 00:26:18.576
She said that the initial abuse with Brian started when she was about seven or eight and said it continued into her teens.

00:26:19.297 --> 00:26:21.417
Okay, and what would Brian do?

00:26:26.539 --> 00:26:27.844
She talked to us specifically about different incidents.

00:26:27.844 --> 00:26:33.082
She had talked about an incident where she was on a four-wheeler where he would touch her private parts over and under her clothes.

00:26:33.082 --> 00:26:35.728
She said that this happened quite often.

00:26:35.728 --> 00:26:42.971
She also talked about an incident in the workshop where he would touch her breast, her private parts under her clothes.

00:26:42.971 --> 00:26:51.393
And then she talked about another incident on a golf cart and this incident she had disclosed that it was over the clothing that he would touch her.

00:26:51.393 --> 00:27:08.720
But she essentially said she described it as sometimes when she would sit down on the four-wheeler or the golf cart, he would kind of cup his hand under her and make her sit on it and that's when some of the touching of her private parts would take place and make her sit on it and that's when some of the touching of her private parts would take place.

00:27:14.420 --> 00:27:18.928
One quick disclaimer listeners, when I'm saying private parts from a male or a female, I am specifically talking about the V or the P.

00:27:18.928 --> 00:27:24.145
It's just really hard for me to say that, talking about these children.

00:27:24.145 --> 00:27:25.568
So that's why I'm saying privates.

00:27:25.568 --> 00:27:27.786
Otherwise I will say breast or whatever.

00:27:27.786 --> 00:27:29.271
I just wanted to clarify that.

00:27:29.271 --> 00:27:31.339
So there's no cloudy areas right there.

00:27:31.339 --> 00:27:32.884
We're going to get right back to it.

00:27:34.788 --> 00:27:41.200
And did you get the impression from victim fives interview that it was sometimes over the clothes, sometimes under the clothes?

00:27:41.200 --> 00:27:43.763
But it would be a sort of variety of different things.

00:27:43.984 --> 00:27:44.565
Yes, I did.

00:27:45.026 --> 00:27:45.346
Okay.

00:27:45.346 --> 00:27:49.513
Did she also talk about how Brian would expose himself to her and her sisters?

00:27:49.834 --> 00:27:50.275
She did.

00:27:50.840 --> 00:27:53.229
What were some of the things that she disclosed?

00:27:53.861 --> 00:28:03.623
She would talk about how he would come out from using the restroom and essentially he would have his private parts just hanging out of his pants Various times on the property.

00:28:03.623 --> 00:28:09.074
He would just have his private part out to include in the home, Things like that.

00:28:09.074 --> 00:28:11.403
She also described one incident.

00:28:11.403 --> 00:28:19.851
When she described him as having an erection, she said, and the way she described it, it was because it was sticking out through his zipper.

00:28:20.880 --> 00:28:26.892
And did she also disclose that he had made like comments or various remarks about her body?

00:28:27.212 --> 00:28:27.634
She did.

00:28:27.634 --> 00:28:36.652
She talked about how he would kind of make whistling sounds at her and then he would make verbal specific comments about how good she looked.

00:28:37.420 --> 00:28:41.407
Did Victim 5 disclose seeing Brian touch any of her adopted sisters?

00:28:41.688 --> 00:28:42.128
She did.

00:28:42.470 --> 00:28:43.010
Which one?

00:28:44.153 --> 00:28:44.834
Victim 1.

00:28:45.660 --> 00:28:49.030
And what did Victim 5 see with Victim 1 and Brian?

00:28:49.641 --> 00:28:54.593
She said she kind of saw the same thing happen to her take place on the four-wheeler with the victim.

00:28:54.593 --> 00:28:58.069
And then she also talked about an incident in the barn.

00:28:58.069 --> 00:29:00.528
With this incident it was a little different.

00:29:00.528 --> 00:29:12.633
Victim 5 disclosed that she kind of or she saw Brian kind of tickling her stomach area and from there it went down to where she was touching Victim 1's private area.

00:29:13.480 --> 00:29:23.976
And did you get the impression that this was happening when there were other people around, that Brian was basically molesting Victim 1 in front of Victim 5 and potentially other kids too?

00:29:24.500 --> 00:29:24.781
Yes.

00:29:25.324 --> 00:29:30.845
Did she also disclose that Brian would go through the girls' laundry basket and pick up their underwear?

00:29:31.386 --> 00:29:31.848
She did.

00:29:32.400 --> 00:29:37.111
Did victim five and her sisters ever tell Sonia about what was going on with Brian?

00:29:37.872 --> 00:29:38.313
They did.

00:29:38.313 --> 00:29:42.070
Victim five said that she had told Sonia every time something happened.

00:29:43.601 --> 00:29:48.391
And was there a time that stood out to her that they had disclosed to Sonia?

00:29:48.751 --> 00:29:49.232
There was.

00:29:49.232 --> 00:29:56.334
There was a time that they discussed it with her and essentially have the disclosure that they had a family meeting about it.

00:29:57.200 --> 00:30:02.952
Did she talk about how old she thought everyone was when they made a disclosure to Sonia?

00:30:04.240 --> 00:30:05.440
Between 10 and 13.

00:30:05.460 --> 00:30:07.201
was when they made a disclosure to Sonia Between 10 and 13.

00:30:07.201 --> 00:30:13.222
Okay, and so when we say 10 and 13, were some of the girls 10 and some of them 13?

00:30:13.843 --> 00:30:17.545
Yes, victim five and victim 11 were around 10.

00:30:17.545 --> 00:30:19.404
Victim one was 11.

00:30:19.404 --> 00:30:23.366
And then victim six, which was another child in the home, was 13.

00:30:24.027 --> 00:30:30.169
You had mentioned earlier that Sonia would sometimes have the reaction of accusing the girls of lying.

00:30:30.169 --> 00:30:38.731
Did Victim 5 ever disclose that was a reaction Sonia had when she had told her what was going on with Brian.

00:30:39.132 --> 00:30:39.731
Yes, she did.

00:30:40.291 --> 00:30:40.592
Okay.

00:30:40.592 --> 00:30:47.154
Did you get the impression from Victim 5 that she had told Sonia more than one time that this was going on with Brian?

00:30:47.535 --> 00:30:47.815
Yes.

00:30:48.315 --> 00:30:50.536
And so did the abuse continue.

00:30:50.935 --> 00:30:51.536
Yes, it did.

00:30:52.076 --> 00:30:58.137
Okay, and then eventually did the younger girls victim two, victim three and victim four become victims?

00:30:58.538 --> 00:30:59.199
Yes, they did.

00:31:03.019 --> 00:31:04.180
Did they tell victim five what was happening with them?

00:31:04.180 --> 00:31:07.941
Victim two, victim three and victim four Did they disclose that to victim five?

00:31:08.741 --> 00:31:09.362
Yes, they did.

00:31:09.781 --> 00:31:11.701
Did she talk about that in her interview?

00:31:11.981 --> 00:31:12.643
Yes, she did.

00:31:13.123 --> 00:31:16.663
What did victim two tell victim five that Brian had done to her?

00:31:17.703 --> 00:31:25.885
Victim two had told victim five that he had put her or his hands up her clothes and touched her on her chest area.

00:31:27.166 --> 00:31:28.626
And what about victim three?

00:31:29.166 --> 00:31:30.468
Essentially the same thing.

00:31:30.468 --> 00:31:36.890
However, she talked about hands up the clothes, and then she mentioned the lotion on his hands and touching her private part with it.

00:31:36.890 --> 00:31:41.530
So disgusting this is hard to read, folks.

00:31:42.750 --> 00:31:48.553
So, and what was a detail that the girls disclosed in their first Susie's Place interviews?

00:31:48.553 --> 00:31:52.354
Victim two and victim three, correct, or that was a detail?

00:31:52.713 --> 00:31:53.554
Yes, that's correct.

00:31:53.913 --> 00:31:57.494
Okay, and then did victim four disclose anything to?

00:31:58.096 --> 00:31:58.855
victim five.

00:31:58.855 --> 00:32:02.797
Victim four had told victim five the same things were happening to her.

00:32:03.436 --> 00:32:08.778
Okay, victim four did not disclose anything with Brian in her Susie's Place interview, correct?

00:32:09.118 --> 00:32:09.759
She did not.

00:32:10.259 --> 00:32:15.623
Okay, and so you kind of mentioned that there was like a family meeting.

00:32:15.623 --> 00:32:21.752
Was there some sort of confrontation of sorts with Sonia and Brian resulting or, I guess, stemming from this?

00:32:21.834 --> 00:32:23.721
disclosure there was.

00:32:23.721 --> 00:32:26.631
They talked about how they had a big family meeting.

00:32:26.631 --> 00:32:28.226
They had Brian come in.

00:32:28.226 --> 00:32:31.990
Sonia and Brian had a private conversation away from the kids.

00:32:31.990 --> 00:32:33.204
At that point.

00:32:33.204 --> 00:32:37.488
That's when Brian essentially told Sonia that the kids were lying, that it didn't happen.

00:32:37.488 --> 00:32:43.665
So Sonia came in and told the girls that they were all lying, that he said that it didn't happen.

00:32:43.665 --> 00:32:44.630
So it didn't happen.

00:32:45.280 --> 00:32:48.869
Was there ever a confrontation where Brian admitted to everything?

00:32:49.211 --> 00:32:49.692
There was.

00:32:49.692 --> 00:32:52.930
There was another incident where they had had another family meeting.

00:32:52.930 --> 00:33:03.113
This was after the younger kids had disclosed to Sonia what was going on and Brian admitted to the things that were happening and apologized to the girls.

00:33:03.720 --> 00:33:05.122
And did Sonia again.

00:33:05.122 --> 00:33:12.294
In Victim 5's interview did we learn that Sonia told the girls not to tell anything about what Brian had done.

00:33:12.634 --> 00:33:12.875
Yes.

00:33:13.480 --> 00:33:17.430
Did we also learn that Sonia told them to lie to DCS?

00:33:18.111 --> 00:33:18.673
Yes, we did.

00:33:19.300 --> 00:33:22.348
What was the reason that Sonia gave the Victim?

00:33:22.348 --> 00:33:23.792
5 could remember.

00:33:24.661 --> 00:33:27.931
That they wanted to protect the family and she couldn't lose the farm.

00:33:29.162 --> 00:33:31.249
And did she make any specific threats?

00:33:31.249 --> 00:33:36.291
Did Sonia make any threats about what would happen if victim 5 did tell DCS?

00:33:37.119 --> 00:33:48.169
Yes, it was in the same line of the same disclosures as the other children, that they would be separated from their siblings, they would never see each other again, that Brian and Sonia would essentially go to jail.

00:33:48.690 --> 00:33:54.230
Did Victim 5 disclose anything about what happened with Sonia when Victim 5 was living on the property?

00:33:54.451 --> 00:33:55.074
Yes, she did.

00:33:55.615 --> 00:34:00.833
What did she disclose of physical abuse that Victim 5 had suffered at the hands of Sonia?

00:34:01.375 --> 00:34:08.567
She talked about different incidents where she'd have her hair pulled, a table dumped on her, she's had chairs thrown at her.

00:34:08.567 --> 00:34:10.606
She's also talked about separate instances.

00:34:10.606 --> 00:34:20.655
There was one incident in the laundry room when she was about 15 or 16 where she was drug into the laundry room and essentially she was strangled.

00:34:20.655 --> 00:34:28.902
She described Sonia taking both of her hands around her neck and Sonia would tell her the more you fight back, the more I'm going to do it.

00:34:28.902 --> 00:34:32.045
And during her disclosure she said she couldn't breathe.

00:34:32.045 --> 00:34:40.307
At one point Sonia let go and victim five had told her to stop choking her and said made the comment what do you mean this?

00:34:40.307 --> 00:34:45.750
And then reengaged, grabbing her by the throat, and continued and said that's not choking.

00:34:46.451 --> 00:34:53.132
And so, in addition to that incident in the laundry room, was there anything else that victim five had talked about happening with Sonia?

00:34:53.594 --> 00:34:54.054
She did.

00:34:54.054 --> 00:35:03.418
She talked about an incident where she slammed the door one of the doors in the house and Sonia chased her and, as a result, victim five suffered an injury.

00:35:03.418 --> 00:35:08.088
She had chipped one of her teeth and then Sonia described as pounding on her.

00:35:08.088 --> 00:35:12.030
She said she had bruises to her thighs, on her body from that.

00:35:12.681 --> 00:35:17.451
Did she witness anything that Sonia had done to any of the other kids in the house?

00:35:18.213 --> 00:35:18.653
She did.

00:35:18.653 --> 00:35:23.132
She talked about how she would see all of the girls get drug and pulled by their hair.

00:35:23.132 --> 00:35:30.092
She also talked about an incident when victim three was seven took her and threw her in the pond that was on the property.

00:35:30.092 --> 00:35:37.780
Victim five said that victim three had no idea how to swim but said that Sonia had drug her down there and threw her into the pond.

00:35:38.202 --> 00:35:42.150
Did the other girls have to retrieve victim three from the pond after that?

00:35:42.371 --> 00:35:42.972
Yes, they did.

00:35:43.539 --> 00:35:48.291
Did she talk about any incident involving one of the kids being thrown into a bathtub?

00:35:48.771 --> 00:35:49.193
She did.

00:35:49.193 --> 00:35:51.789
She talked about an incident with victim six.

00:35:51.789 --> 00:36:01.773
She said that she wasn't really sure what the exact circumstances were from it, but she said that she had saw Sonia drag victim six into the bathroom and throw her into the tub.

00:36:03.760 --> 00:36:17.228
Did she also talk about, in a way that was consistent with the other interviews that you'd done up to this point, or observed at this point, any sort of food deprivation that she was subjected to or that she witnessed at the Stafford home?

00:36:17.963 --> 00:36:23.250
She did and it was pretty in line and consistent with the same disclosures the other children had made as well.

00:36:23.860 --> 00:36:27.672
Did she also talk about the button box and what those buttons would mean?

00:36:27.672 --> 00:36:30.246
That was fairly consistent with the other girls.

00:36:30.989 --> 00:36:31.570
Yes, she did.

00:36:32.030 --> 00:36:36.009
Okay, did she also talk about the wax and the paddles that were used?

00:36:36.510 --> 00:36:37.112
Yes, she did?

00:36:37.420 --> 00:36:47.943
Did she ever say that she went without eating as a result of something and maybe extra buttons for points she hadn't worked off, or any situation where she was deprived of food?

00:36:48.443 --> 00:36:48.925
She did.

00:36:48.925 --> 00:36:59.353
I don't think she made specific disclosure on like a timeline of how, like if it were days, or how many meals she missed, but she did talk about being deprived of meals.

00:36:59.960 --> 00:37:04.951
Did she talk about a time where she tried to run away and was left out in the cold until 3 am?

00:37:05.311 --> 00:37:05.913
Yes, she did.

00:37:12.550 --> 00:37:13.170
Yes, she was.

00:37:13.170 --> 00:37:28.956
And throughout your investigation did you get the impression that Sonia had always used food as a means of control with all of the children, but that this specific regimen that victim two, three and four were on was, for whatever reason, unique to them?

00:37:29.336 --> 00:37:29.577
Yes.

00:37:30.260 --> 00:37:36.373
Okay, and what did victim five know about the food that victim two, three and four were supposed to eat?

00:37:37.001 --> 00:37:46.342
She talked about how they weren't allowed to have food but if it was if they were, it was sardines they might get a glass of milk or like a half a peanut butter sandwich.

00:37:46.342 --> 00:37:49.992
She talked about how the younger girls were skinny and looked underweight.

00:37:49.992 --> 00:37:58.688
Then she also talked about an incident where victim's four feet would swell up and she thinks that was because of the lack of nutrients that she wasn't getting.

00:37:58.688 --> 00:38:03.885
And she said Sonia would dump extra salt into the can of sardines that she would have to eat.

00:38:04.507 --> 00:38:08.213
And did Victim 5 also talk about Brian and Victim 11?

00:38:08.594 --> 00:38:09.175
Yes, she did.

00:38:09.559 --> 00:38:14.351
Was she aware of the quote-unquote relationship between Brian and Victim 11?

00:38:14.731 --> 00:38:14.972
Yes.

00:38:15.360 --> 00:38:17.007
And how did she find out about that?

00:38:17.760 --> 00:38:23.233
She made comments during her interview that she found out from Brian and Victim 11 about the relationship.

00:38:24.059 --> 00:38:34.364
And what was Victim five's reaction to finding out that her adopted father and her sister went on a sexual relationship and that victim 11 was pregnant with his child?

00:38:34.826 --> 00:38:37.753
She said she felt like victim 11 had been groomed.

00:38:38.476 --> 00:38:43.907
And so, after victim five's interview did we also have an interview scheduled for Victim One?

00:38:44.289 --> 00:38:44.548
Yes.

00:38:45.150 --> 00:38:47.420
Okay, and when was she interviewed?

00:38:48.182 --> 00:38:51.389
She was interviewed the same day, May 31st of this year.

00:38:51.969 --> 00:38:56.885
And kind of orient the court as to what group Victim One came from.

00:38:57.445 --> 00:39:00.391
Victim One was the first group from Indiana.

00:39:00.853 --> 00:39:04.927
Okay, and so she was the first group that was adopted in 2011,.

00:39:04.927 --> 00:39:05.469
Correct?

00:39:05.829 --> 00:39:06.411
That's correct.

00:39:08.900 --> 00:39:09.442
How old was?

00:39:09.481 --> 00:39:10.887
victim, one when she was interviewed 19.

00:39:11.568 --> 00:39:20.496
And so what did she disclose about how she was treated when she was living with the Staffords that you found to be pretty consistent with the other girls' disclosures.

00:39:21.161 --> 00:39:26.532
She talked about the same types of things the regimen, the schedules, the sentences, the button box.

00:39:26.532 --> 00:39:34.974
She talked about during the interview how the highest amount she had to write was between 50 and 20,000 sentences in one day.

00:39:34.974 --> 00:39:44.574
Then she talked about pretty consistent with the other girls' disclosures and that if the sentences weren't done she'd be up all throughout the night trying to get them done before the next day.

00:39:45.240 --> 00:39:47.168
What did she disclose about Sonia?

00:39:48.061 --> 00:39:51.331
She talked about some physical abuse that she sustained from Sonia.

00:39:52.800 --> 00:39:57.679
Were there specific incidences that she could remember, that she gave disclosures about?

00:39:58.041 --> 00:39:58.521
She did.

00:39:58.521 --> 00:40:05.164
She said the very first incident was the day that or, I'm sorry, the night that she was formally adopted.

00:40:05.164 --> 00:40:07.431
She was slapped in the face by Sonia.

00:40:08.099 --> 00:40:12.831
And what were the circumstances that she said in her disclosure kind of led up to that?

00:40:13.719 --> 00:40:14.001
Victim.

00:40:14.001 --> 00:40:24.791
One talked about being emotional, said she was crying out for her mother you know her biological mother and Sonia smacked her in the face and said she's not your mother anymore, I'm your mother.

00:40:25.780 --> 00:40:31.815
And that was the night that victim one was adopted and welcomed into the Stafford home.

00:40:31.815 --> 00:40:32.916
Yes, it was.

00:40:33.224 --> 00:40:34.170
And how old was she?

00:40:34.170 --> 00:40:36.331
She was seven or eight.

00:40:37.166 --> 00:40:39.393
Was there another incident that she remembered?

00:40:39.393 --> 00:40:44.175
That was, I think she described as maybe the last day that she was at the barn.

00:40:44.876 --> 00:40:45.338
She did.

00:40:45.338 --> 00:40:47.231
What was that incident?

00:40:47.231 --> 00:40:55.228
She talked about being in the barn and there was an incident with Sonia and described her being choked and strangled by Sonia.

00:40:55.228 --> 00:41:00.088
She said during the incident she could see black spots, she felt her legs going weak.

00:41:00.088 --> 00:41:01.715
She tried to kick and fight.

00:41:01.715 --> 00:41:09.597
She said she doesn't remember how her brother, victim 10, was able to stop it, but just remembers victim 10 helping make that incident stop.

00:41:11.304 --> 00:41:20.670
And in her description of being strangled did she describe that Sonia was applying pressure externally to her throat and that she was unable to breathe?

00:41:21.112 --> 00:41:21.675
Yes, she did.

00:41:22.304 --> 00:41:28.293
Okay, and you mentioned that Victim 10 had to kind of intervene and get her off of Victim 1, correct?

00:41:28.614 --> 00:41:29.195
That's correct.

00:41:30.786 --> 00:41:35.916
Was there another time that Victim 1 could remember something happening with Sonia specifically?

00:41:36.617 --> 00:41:44.539
Yes, she said that there was an incident where she didn't feed one of the guinea pigs and Sonia threw a chair at her and it resulted in a bruise on her leg.

00:41:45.186 --> 00:41:49.536
And did she give any sort of time frame of when that was?

00:41:49.536 --> 00:41:53.536
Did she recall how old she was or when that may have happened?

00:41:55.286 --> 00:42:02.318
I don't recall if she had said a specific date on when that happened, just that it had happened.

00:42:02.985 --> 00:42:08.257
Okay, was there also an incident with nail polish that she had talked about?

00:42:08.704 --> 00:42:09.226
There was.

00:42:09.226 --> 00:42:16.793
They had apparently been given permission to all wear nail polish I believe it was maybe for Victim Six's birthday or something like that.

00:42:16.793 --> 00:42:18.737
So her favorite color was red.

00:42:18.737 --> 00:42:20.789
So she picked red nail polish.

00:42:20.789 --> 00:42:25.146
While they were doing their nails she had disclosed that she had spilled the nail polish.

00:42:25.146 --> 00:42:32.579
Sonia got upset and she talked about how she had some cuts on her hands from the guinea pigs she was taking care of.

00:42:32.579 --> 00:42:45.338
So sonia would take the hand sanitizer and pour it into these open scratches on her hands and told victim one she needed to stop being a whore did she eventually dump the nail polish on victim one's head?

00:42:46.626 --> 00:42:48.548
yes, she did did.

00:42:48.588 --> 00:42:50.311
She also did victim one.

00:42:50.311 --> 00:42:58.940
Give you a picture, or at least, in her disclosure, provide a picture of some of the emotional or verbal abuse that Sonia would inflict.

00:42:59.364 --> 00:43:02.936
She did Victim one would talk about how Sonia would call her fat.

00:43:02.936 --> 00:43:05.233
She would tell her that her body was ugly.

00:43:05.233 --> 00:43:09.746
She said that Sonia would also tell her that she never wanted to adopt victim one.

00:43:09.766 --> 00:43:12.628
She never wanted to adopt victim one and the calling her fat.

00:43:12.628 --> 00:43:19.172
Does that kind of become important later when talking about the three girls victim two, three and four with their weight gain?

00:43:19.172 --> 00:43:21.672
That has happened after their removal.

00:43:21.952 --> 00:43:22.353
It does.

00:43:23.134 --> 00:43:33.079
Okay, and I know I'm jumping ahead a little bit, but in victim four's current state has victim four expressed concern about what's going to happen if she eats and if she gains weight.

00:43:33.079 --> 00:43:35.420
Does she seem concerned about that she?

00:43:35.619 --> 00:43:35.719
is.

00:43:36.420 --> 00:43:38.541
And do you in your review of everything?

00:43:38.541 --> 00:43:41.623
Does that seem to be a result of Sonia's conditioning?

00:43:42.023 --> 00:43:42.643
Yes, it does.

00:43:47.125 --> 00:43:49.039
So jumping back to victim one did she ever talk about witnessing any physical?

00:43:49.059 --> 00:43:49.563
abuse while she was there.

00:43:49.563 --> 00:43:49.724
She did.

00:43:50.487 --> 00:43:51.998
And was that any thing that happened to her younger sisters or other kids?

00:43:51.998 --> 00:43:54.813
She did, and was that anything that happened to her younger sisters or other kids?

00:43:54.813 --> 00:43:55.969
What did she see?

00:43:57.146 --> 00:44:00.793
She talked about the younger girls, seeing them get their wax.

00:44:00.793 --> 00:44:04.753
She would talk about how Sonia would pick up the girls by their shirts.

00:44:04.753 --> 00:44:08.773
Then she also had talked about how she saw Sonia slapping the girls.

00:44:09.764 --> 00:44:16.411
And did victim one ever talk anything about neglect for food deprivation or anything of that?

00:44:16.411 --> 00:44:18.978
Would corroborate with what the other girls had said.

00:44:19.300 --> 00:44:19.760
She did.

00:44:20.222 --> 00:44:21.806
What did victim one disclose?

00:44:22.867 --> 00:44:30.628
It was along the same lines of the same punishment, the same things being done how they were supposed to be done.

00:44:30.628 --> 00:44:32.230
They would be withheld food.

00:44:32.230 --> 00:44:37.260
During her interview, she also disclosed that the longest time she went out without food was five days.

00:44:37.724 --> 00:44:40.094
What did victim one disclose about Brian?

00:44:40.465 --> 00:44:43.655
She disclosed that there was a sexual abuse that occurred with Brian.

00:44:45.510 --> 00:44:46.545
What did she disclose?

00:44:46.545 --> 00:44:53.018
Well, actually did she talk about molest or sexual abuse that happened with him on more than one occasion.

00:44:53.217 --> 00:44:53.639
She did.

00:44:54.244 --> 00:44:57.556
What was the first time that she remembered something happening with Brian?

00:44:58.184 --> 00:45:01.795
The first time she remembered something happening she was about 10 years old.

00:45:01.795 --> 00:45:05.996
She had gotten in trouble by Sonia, so she was emotionally and crying.

00:45:05.996 --> 00:45:14.567
Brian, from her disclosure, kind of swooped in, offered her a hug and told, said I have something to show you that will make you feel better.

00:45:14.567 --> 00:45:21.791
At that point Brian started touching victim one she disclosed that she stated started grabbing her butt at that incident.

00:45:22.273 --> 00:45:28.246
And in her disclosure did she say that that was the first incident.

00:45:28.246 --> 00:45:30.688
After the first incident it had stopped.

00:45:31.329 --> 00:45:31.590
Yes.

00:45:32.329 --> 00:45:32.750
Okay.

00:45:32.750 --> 00:45:37.994
Did she also say that Brian had told her this was what normal dads and daughters do?

00:45:38.934 --> 00:45:39.235
Yes.

00:45:40.195 --> 00:45:46.099
After that first incident, did she talk about any times where Brian would expose himself to her or her sisters?

00:45:46.418 --> 00:45:47.039
Yes, she did.

00:45:47.360 --> 00:45:50.601
Did you get the impression that happened more than one time?

00:45:50.981 --> 00:45:51.563
Yes, I did.

00:45:51.963 --> 00:45:55.748
Okay impression that happened more than one time?

00:45:55.748 --> 00:45:57.570
Yes, I did Okay and were her disclosures consistent with that?

00:45:57.590 --> 00:45:58.532
of victim five.

00:45:58.532 --> 00:45:59.153
Yes, it was.

00:45:59.775 --> 00:46:05.954
Okay, was there a time where it happened with victim five, victim one and victim six all in their rooms?

00:46:06.275 --> 00:46:06.516
Yes.

00:46:07.358 --> 00:46:11.108
Okay, and from her disclosure was victim one approximately 10 years old.

00:46:11.568 --> 00:46:12.190
Yes, she was?

00:46:12.570 --> 00:46:17.057
Did she also disclose that Brian exposed himself in the pole barn at various times?

00:46:17.478 --> 00:46:18.099
Yes, she did.

00:46:18.804 --> 00:46:24.036
Was there a time that victim one talked about where she went to split wood with Brian?

00:46:24.356 --> 00:46:24.938
Yes, she did.

00:46:25.545 --> 00:46:28.514
What did she disclose about that incident and how old was she?

00:46:29.306 --> 00:46:30.952
She was 12 years old at that time.

00:46:30.952 --> 00:46:34.266
She disclosed that she and Brian went to go split some wood.

00:46:34.266 --> 00:46:41.650
She said that she had stopped to get food at Burger King and had pulled off to where they were where they were going to be splitting wood at.

00:46:41.650 --> 00:46:45.467
She talked about Brian touching her on various parts of her body.

00:46:45.467 --> 00:46:51.409
She also talks about how Brian would make comments about how, when she turned 18, she was going to be his girlfriend.

00:46:51.409 --> 00:46:58.110
She disclosed that Brian penetrated her private parts with his fingers, and then she also talked about when he did.

00:46:58.110 --> 00:47:03.153
She felt wiggling around from his fingers and then she said that she immediately started bleeding.

00:47:04.346 --> 00:47:09.237
And did they end up going back to the farm without splitting any wood after victim one started to bleed?

00:47:09.677 --> 00:47:09.918
Yes.

00:47:09.985 --> 00:47:12.577
Did any sort of disclosure happen with Sonia, or did Sonia have any explanation for why victim one started to bleed?

00:47:12.577 --> 00:47:17.994
Yes, did any sort of disclosure happen with Sonia, or did Sonia have any explanation for why victim one was bleeding she?

00:47:18.076 --> 00:47:18.335
did.

00:47:18.335 --> 00:47:26.175
They had a conversation with Sonia about it and Sonia told victim one that essentially she had just started her menstrual cycle.

00:47:26.175 --> 00:47:29.369
And victim one knew that that wasn't the case.

00:47:29.369 --> 00:47:34.385
She had disclosed that her first menstrual cycle was when she was 10.

00:47:34.385 --> 00:47:37.295
So that would have been two years prior to this incident.

00:47:38.239 --> 00:47:49.047
And I think you had mentioned that Brian had made comments to victim one before and about when she turned 18, he was going to she was going to be Brian's girlfriend.

00:47:49.047 --> 00:47:49.809
Is that correct?

00:47:50.150 --> 00:47:50.411
Yes.

00:47:51.592 --> 00:47:54.358
And what was victim one's reaction to that?

00:47:55.465 --> 00:47:57.708
She told Brian that that was not going to be the case.

00:47:58.309 --> 00:48:00.134
Good for her.

00:48:00.134 --> 00:48:05.307
So now we just want to sum up what we've went through.

00:48:06.230 --> 00:48:10.297
That's a lot of people and a lot of people.

00:48:10.297 --> 00:48:19.257
We've had a lot of people wanting this raw, so that's why we're giving it to you raw and we are kind of even softening some of the blows a little bit for you.

00:48:19.257 --> 00:48:24.338
But I mean just to sum up some of the things, it's obvious that Sonia knew what was going on.

00:48:24.338 --> 00:48:25.670
It was getting reported to her.

00:48:25.670 --> 00:48:27.371
She knew exactly what was going on.

00:48:27.371 --> 00:48:29.050
She's a sick bitch.

00:48:29.050 --> 00:48:30.206
She is sick AF.

00:48:30.206 --> 00:48:31.146
She's a sick bitch, she is sick AF.

00:48:31.788 --> 00:48:53.101
And to I mean it's like she had a power trip and it's hard for me to figure out whether she was jealous or you think she Hell yeah, she was jealous, she hated these little girls and she wanted to beat them and abuse them and slave them away on her farm, all the while knowing that her husband's taking sexual advantage of him.

00:48:53.644 --> 00:49:02.969
That is just insane, she needs to be charged with sexual molestation just as him in my eyes, because you know what she knew about it.

00:49:02.969 --> 00:49:06.112
She didn't report it, she just kept covering it up.

00:49:06.112 --> 00:49:11.657
So I think that should be a charge on her, because she ain't gotten no charges like that.

00:49:11.744 --> 00:49:31.175
But come on, I mean to me, if you know about all this sexual molestation and you know touching private parts as they were being touched, just like if you're with somebody that robs a bank, or you're with somebody when somebody else murders somebody, if she knew that shit was going on.

00:49:31.175 --> 00:49:43.342
When somebody else murders somebody, if she knew that shit was going on, absolutely she should be charged with at least conspiracy to commit sexual misconduct, conspiracy to commit molestation, something.

00:49:43.342 --> 00:49:54.994
And when we were at the press conference there was people that asked, there was reporters that asked if they thought there was any more charges that could be drummed up and they could not rule that out.

00:49:54.994 --> 00:50:04.512
So we can only hope and pray that out of this probable cause affidavit, maybe when the prosecutors look at it more, that there are going to be more charges dropped on this.

00:50:04.512 --> 00:50:05.295
We can only hope.

00:50:05.925 --> 00:50:07.789
Not dropped as in go away.

00:50:07.789 --> 00:50:10.998
He means dropped as in new charges coming up.

00:50:11.065 --> 00:50:12.168
Like a hammer dropped.

00:50:12.168 --> 00:50:14.293
Like a hammer on their asses is what I mean.

00:50:14.293 --> 00:50:14.916
Dropped by.

00:50:15.244 --> 00:50:29.994
And they still believe that they have victims into the early 90s and they believe that they have victims who they haven't even spoke to, victims that they don't even know, witnesses that they haven't spoke to help.

00:50:29.994 --> 00:50:38.521
If they know anything, if they've seen anything, they need to go say something to these investigators to get justice for these kids who had to live through this.

00:50:38.905 --> 00:50:57.581
Absolutely we also, julie, made a point to ask the prosecutors and the sheriff detective if there was any thoughts or any interest in reopening the case of Cody Stafford who committed suicide supposedly allegedly at the foot of Brian and Sonia Stafford's bed.

00:50:57.581 --> 00:51:00.974
They couldn't really comment on that yet.

00:51:00.974 --> 00:51:07.744
They hadn't got too much information on that yet, just what the kids had told him in their interviews.

00:51:07.744 --> 00:51:14.594
But to my understanding most of those adopted children and foster children.

00:51:14.594 --> 00:51:15.836
They weren't around when.

00:51:16.358 --> 00:51:25.155
Cody had committed suicide, and I want to tell you, if anybody out there knows anything that's more than what this suicide is.

00:51:25.155 --> 00:51:28.981
Please contact 69 South and give us the information.

00:51:28.981 --> 00:51:36.739
We want to dig into this and we want to get justice for him too, because we have had people reach out and tell us that we need to go deeper into this.

00:51:36.739 --> 00:51:40.195
Well, going deeper means we need some help from our listeners.

00:51:40.905 --> 00:51:58.416
And another thing I thought was odd in one of our interviews that we have done, the stories have changed on how Cody has committed suicide and that can only be because Brian and Sonia are telling different stories.

00:51:58.635 --> 00:51:59.217
Absolutely.

00:52:00.164 --> 00:52:05.777
So that makes me also think that something else is going on a little bit deeper.

00:52:07.146 --> 00:52:12.818
We never reveal our sources and your information, your names and any information is saved with us.

00:52:12.818 --> 00:52:14.190
We just want the truth.

00:52:14.190 --> 00:52:17.375
We just want justice for everybody involved.

00:52:17.375 --> 00:52:23.233
Unfortunately, we have to wrap this episode up.

00:52:23.233 --> 00:52:35.827
This is basically pretty close to two-thirds of the probable cause affidavit that we're going to bring to you, so there will be another episode of the last of the probable cause.

00:52:35.827 --> 00:52:38.056
We thank you for tuning in.

00:52:38.056 --> 00:52:41.447
If you love what you've heard, don't forget to download our podcast.

00:52:41.447 --> 00:52:44.054
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00:52:44.054 --> 00:52:45.317
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00:52:45.317 --> 00:52:58.777
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00:52:58.876 --> 00:53:02.094
Deezer, listen, notes, player, fm, whatever, whatever.

00:53:02.094 --> 00:53:03.210
There's so many of them.

00:53:03.465 --> 00:53:04.583
There's a bunch of shit I ain't even heard of.

00:53:04.583 --> 00:53:08.375
We also are going to have a new YouTube channel.

00:53:08.375 --> 00:53:09.804
We just got enough followers.

00:53:09.804 --> 00:53:13.215
Thank you for everybody that was involved in following us.

00:53:13.215 --> 00:53:16.210
We are so excited to get our youtube channel fired up.

00:53:16.210 --> 00:53:17.855
It is going to be on fire.

00:53:17.855 --> 00:53:19.739
You'll finally get to put the faces.

00:53:19.739 --> 00:53:22.226
Until next time, we hope you have a good day.

00:53:22.226 --> 00:53:25.467
Good evening, outro Music.