Jan. 5, 2026
Delphi Murders Appeal – Part 1: The Search Warrant, Solitary Confinement, and the Fight for a Fair Trial
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Part 1: Inside Richard Allen’s 113-Page Appeal Brief
In this opening episode of our multi-part series on Richard Allen’s appeal in the Delphi murders case, we dive into the first 29 pages of the 113-page Appellant’s Brief filed on December 17, 2025.
We begin with an overview of the case: the 2017 murders of Abby Williams and Libby German, Richard Allen’s 2022 arrest, his conviction after a high-profile 2024 trial, and the 130-year sentence he is now appealing.
The brief’s core arguments introduced in this section focus on two major claims of reversible error:
- The search of Allen’s home was based on a flawed warrant affidavit containing reckless omissions and misstatements by law enforcement—potentially violating the Fourth Amendment and requiring suppression of key evidence (including discussion of whether Allen should at least receive a full Franks hearing).
- Allen’s multiple confessions—made while held in prolonged solitary confinement under extreme conditions—were involuntary, the product of psychological coercion and grave mental disability, rendering them inadmissible under both the U.S. and Indiana Constitutions.
We examine the table of contents, statements of issues, case background, and the opening portions of the legal argument, setting the stage for the defense’s claim that critical evidence should never have reached the jury.
Join us as we unpack the constitutional questions at the heart of Allen’s bid for a new trial. Perfect for true-crime listeners following every twist in one of America’s most watched cases.
(Part 2 coming soon: deeper into the confessions, solitary confinement evidence, and the defense’s battle to present alternative theories.)
#DelphiMurders #RichardAllen #DelphiAppeal #TrueCrime #RichardAllenAppeal #BridgeGuy #SolitaryConfinement #FranksHearing #69South
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WEBVTT
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[SPEAKER_01]: Welcome everyone to podcast 69 South where we kiss and discuss true crime and co-cases, current events and hot topics along with our state of society today.
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[SPEAKER_01]: This is your trigger warning.
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[SPEAKER_01]: Our podcast content is produced for adult listeners 18 years of age and older.
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[SPEAKER_01]: We discuss situations that may be offensive and triggering for some listeners sit back, relax and enjoy it.
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[SPEAKER_01]: Welcome back everybody to 69 South.
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[SPEAKER_01]: I am Chop and Ryan Shotgun is my beautiful co-host, Julie.
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[SPEAKER_01]: How are you doing today?
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[SPEAKER_00]: Amazing as always.
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[SPEAKER_01]: Today we're going to bring you up to speed on the Richard Allen appeal case.
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[SPEAKER_00]: And in case you don't remember or know who Richard Allen is, he was convicted of murdering the two little girls in Delphi back in 2017.
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[SPEAKER_00]: and they initially filed to file an appeal in March of 2025, but they just got the brief filed December 18th.
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[SPEAKER_00]: So we're going to jump into that and let you all know what it says.
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[SPEAKER_01]: So the statement of issue are whether the search warrant of Allen's home was unconstitutional and the resulting evidence in admissible were in admissible because law enforcement omitted or altered key facts in the warrant application.
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[SPEAKER_01]: Number two, whether statements Allen made while gravely disabled during unprecedented pre-trial solitary confinement were involuntary the product of unconstitutional detention and in admissible.
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[SPEAKER_01]: Number three of this part was whether the trial denied Alan his right to a fair trial to present and complete defense to explain the scene and in Pete's new investigation.
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[SPEAKER_00]: Now their statement of case is that on October 28th of 2022, the state charged Richard Allen with two counts of felony murder by kidnapping, which was amended on March 22nd, 2024 to add
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[SPEAKER_00]: On November 11th, 2024, following a 25-day trial, the jury returned a guilty verdict on all accounts.
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[SPEAKER_00]: The trial court sentenced Allen to an aggregate sentence of 130 years.
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[SPEAKER_00]: Allen filed a motion to correct errors, which the trial court denied.
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[SPEAKER_01]: Now the statement of the facts are on February 14, 2017, 14-year-old Libby German and 13-year-old Abbey Williams were found dead in the woods.
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[SPEAKER_01]: Two days later, Allen, like many others, came forward and reported that he had been on the trail that day and saw three girls.
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[SPEAKER_01]: Now because of law enforcement wanted to know whether he had seen any quote possible suspects, he was interviewed in a parking lot.
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[SPEAKER_01]: Allen then returned to his job, family, and home in the small-delfay community.
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[SPEAKER_01]: For the next five years, he did not sell his car, destroy his clothes, dispose of his guns, or relocate, but continued his normal routine.
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[SPEAKER_01]: No witnesses identified Allen as Bridge Guy.
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[SPEAKER_01]: When the report was rediscovered in September of 2022, law enforcement insisted Allen was Bridge Guy without a single eyewitness.
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[SPEAKER_00]: So here we get into the warrant and the Bridge Guy video.
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[SPEAKER_00]: On February 13, 2017, around 1.30 pm, Libby's older sister dropped off, Libby and Abby at the Monon High Bridge Trail to explore and take photos.
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[SPEAKER_00]: The girls had the day off from school and the weather was unseasonably warm.
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[SPEAKER_00]: When the girls felt to meet Libby's father at this specified time and no one could reach them,
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[SPEAKER_00]: Libby's family contacted police and then extensive search began.
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[SPEAKER_00]: The next day around noon the girls were found murdered in the woods near Dier Creek, not far from the high bridge.
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[SPEAKER_00]: The best evidence law enforcement had was from Libby's phone found at the scene under Abbey's body.
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[SPEAKER_00]: Libby recorded a 43 second video showing Abbey walking across the bridge was someone
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[SPEAKER_00]: meaning they're thinking bridge guy behind her law enforcement enhanced the video yielding the following.
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[SPEAKER_00]: The man has heard telling the girls down the hill.
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[SPEAKER_01]: Law enforcement set up a tip line and many people came forward.
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[SPEAKER_01]: 16 year old RV, her sister's IV and A.S. and her friend B.W.
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[SPEAKER_01]: told police that they were on the trail.
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[SPEAKER_01]: And as they were leaving, they saw a man near the entrance to the Freedom Bridge.
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[SPEAKER_01]: Betsy Blair, who frequently walked the trails for exercise, came forward and told police she saw a white man on the high bridge standing on a platform and seemed to be waiting for someone.
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[SPEAKER_01]: She thought the man was the guy in the bridge video because he was wearing the same clothes.
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[SPEAKER_01]: When she reached the bridge, she turned around and noticed the two girls approaching.
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[SPEAKER_01]: Four months after the murder, law enforcement interviewed Sarah Carball,
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[SPEAKER_01]: She told police that don't February 13 while driving eastbound on county road 300.
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[SPEAKER_01]: She saw a muddy man wearing a tan coat walking west toward town.
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[SPEAKER_01]: After seeing the image of the bridge guy in the media, Carba said that he possibly was the man she had seen.
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[SPEAKER_00]: So five and a half years later.
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[SPEAKER_00]: On September 21, 2022, law enforcement rediscovered the tip from Allen.
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[SPEAKER_00]: Allen called and said he was on the bridge between maybe one and three and saw three girls.
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[SPEAKER_00]: Allen shared his address, phone number, and M-E-I-D number, which is a unique identifier that can be used to track a phone's location.
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[SPEAKER_00]: The lead investigators immediately started investigating now 50-year-old Allen.
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[SPEAKER_00]: They believed that the man, the four girls, RV and others, saw on the trail was bridge guy.
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[SPEAKER_00]: Allen still lived in the same house and he worked at the same CVS store in Delphi as he did in 2017.
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[SPEAKER_00]: On October 13, 2022, when police showed up at his house, Allen agreed to talk with them after writing to the police station, Allen patiently answered questions about his personal life and the walkie took on his day off five and a half years earlier.
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[SPEAKER_00]: Allen explained after spending the morning with his mom on February 13, 2017.
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[SPEAKER_00]: He went home to get a jacket before going to the trails.
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[SPEAKER_00]: He walked out to the first platform of the high bridge.
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[SPEAKER_00]: Looked at the fish and then walked back before returning home to watch the stock market.
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[SPEAKER_01]: He explained that he came forward after law enforcement asked to speak with anyone who had been on the trail.
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[SPEAKER_01]: The next day, a DNR officer interviewed him in a parking lot.
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[SPEAKER_01]: Alan believed that he told the officer he was on the trail between noon and 1.30 or 1.45.
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[SPEAKER_01]: He could only recall seeing three girls leaving the trail.
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[SPEAKER_01]: Being five years past, Alan could not remember what car he drove or the close he wore.
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[SPEAKER_01]: He remembered wearing blue jeans and a jacket.
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[SPEAKER_01]: When asked what type of jacket Alan did not remember, and listed all the jackets he
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[SPEAKER_01]: a blue car heart, a black car heart, or an off-brand with a hood, sweat shirts, hoodies, and a fleece.
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[SPEAKER_01]: He kept his go-kap in his jacket.
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[SPEAKER_01]: He could have been wearing tennis shoes or boots.
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[SPEAKER_01]: When law enforcement asked for consent to search, Allen expressed concern that they were making him somebody's fall guy by trying to fit pieces together that did not fit close to the case.
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[SPEAKER_01]: He was confused, thinking they were talking to him to look for helpful information.
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[SPEAKER_01]: Although he understood they had to clear everyone on the trail, he was bothered by the time passage.
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[SPEAKER_00]: After a break, law enforcement returned more confrontational with Allen, who became frustrated with being accused of murder and law enforcement contacting his wife and daughter while he was at the station.
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[SPEAKER_00]: Confronting Allen with the bridge guy photo, Allen responded.
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[SPEAKER_00]: If that is taken with the girls' phone, that is not me.
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[SPEAKER_00]: I have never met those girls before.
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[SPEAKER_00]: They accused Alan of admitting he wore the same clothes as Brige Guy and Alan corrected the investigator reminding him that he said he could have been wearing a sweatshirt.
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[SPEAKER_00]: Alan added that everyone has looked at Brige, the Brige Guy photo for years.
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[SPEAKER_00]: To him, it did not even look like Brige Guy was wearing a car heart.
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[SPEAKER_00]: Finally, when law enforcement accused him of either being out there to kill the girls or introduce them to someone, Allen said, good luck finding anything that points to that.
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[SPEAKER_00]: Despite Allen repeatedly telling law enforcement, arrest me or take me home, they would not stop.
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[SPEAKER_00]: Allen eventually had to get up and walk out in the interview.
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[SPEAKER_01]: Now, this is the story that Detective Ligget told the judge to get the search warrant.
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[SPEAKER_01]: On October 13, 2022, the state applied for your warrant for Alan's home, Car and Electronics.
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[SPEAKER_01]: Detective Ligget's probable cause after David, he concluded that Alan is the last individual to have contact with Libby and Abby.
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[SPEAKER_01]: and is the individual depicted on the mode on high bridge from the video taken from Libby's phone.
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[SPEAKER_01]: He reasoned that Alan admitted he was wearing a blue jacket and head covering like Bridge Guy and was on the trail bridge around the time of the abduction and witnesses saw a man that they believed to be Bridge Guy wearing a blue jacket.
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[SPEAKER_01]: Detective Legit implied Blair and the girls saw the same man because they similarly described his jacket.
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[SPEAKER_01]: also detected ligate concluded that Allen drove his black 2016 Ford Focus and parked at the old CPS building on 300 North.
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[SPEAKER_01]: He claimed that witnesses saw a car back into a parking lot spot in the CPS building.
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[SPEAKER_01]: Wilson felt that the driver of the car was trying to conceal the license.
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[SPEAKER_01]: Wilson said that the car was a purple PT cruiser or small SUV type vehicle.
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[SPEAKER_01]: that they saw parked in the same general area and manner.
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[SPEAKER_00]: Now, the part of the story, Detective Ligget, did not tell the judge was about the differences between Blair's description of the man on the bridge and Alan's appearance.
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[SPEAKER_00]: Just three days after the murders, Blair's description are described the man as white
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[SPEAKER_00]: An artist completed this sketch which Blair rated 18 at a 10 for accuracy.
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[SPEAKER_00]: In 2019, Detective Legit personally interviewed Blair who again described the man as slender, useful, boyish looking in his 20s to early 30s, no facial hair and with poofy hair
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[SPEAKER_00]: At the time of the murders, Allen was 44 years old, five, six, and had very short hair.
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[SPEAKER_00]: Now, Blair's description of the oddly park card did not match Allen's.
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[SPEAKER_00]: Detective Liggae also admitted Blair's description of the oddly park car as resembling a 1965 Ford comment with sharper angles, which they compared with images.
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[SPEAKER_01]: of her drawing to Richard Allen's hatchback vehicle and in this paperwork there is the sketch and it does look like an older car with like a box car and Allen's car doesn't look anything like that or a PT or a purple PT creature whatsoever.
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[SPEAKER_00]: Blair also said the oddly park car
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[SPEAKER_00]: Next, they said that Blair did not believe the man on the bridge was the same man, Carball saw walking down the road.
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[SPEAKER_00]: Detective Ligget omitted that Blair told him the man Carball described walking down the road is not the same man she saw on the bridge.
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[SPEAKER_00]: And then below is the sketch of the image that the ISP put out of the man with the hat on.
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[SPEAKER_01]: Right, which is definitely, it definitely looks like an older man with a hat on.
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[SPEAKER_01]: It's almost like they took the image that the lady said she saw walking with no hat in her 20s, a young younger kid, no facial hair.
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[SPEAKER_01]: what the other person said right and kind of made it look like this dude, which I'm sure you waited a little bit absolutely which will post all these on the on the face book.
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[SPEAKER_00]: After talking with Blair in 2019, ISP issued a press release, distinguishing the man Karabaw saw from a man on the bridge.
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[SPEAKER_00]: The ISP explained in the men are not the same person and that Blair sketch is representative of the face of the person captured in the video of Libby cell phone.
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[SPEAKER_00]: Next, Carball said the man walking down the road was wearing a tan coat.
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[SPEAKER_00]: Detective ligate also made ball statements in the affidavit.
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[SPEAKER_00]: He claimed that an interview was done of this carball witness in 2017 and she stated she saw a man wearing a blue colored jacket and was muddy and bloody.
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[SPEAKER_00]: Carball did not describe the man as bloody, only muddy.
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[SPEAKER_00]: She said he was wearing a tan jacket.
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[SPEAKER_01]: Now Allen said that he was never wearing a blue car heart and his wife said Allen had purchased his current car heart a couple of years earlier.
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[SPEAKER_01]: Detectively it falsely stated that Allen said he was wearing a black or blue car heart with a hood and a head covering.
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[SPEAKER_01]: Allen told investigators that he did not know what he was wearing and it could have been anything from a car heart to a sweatshirt and that he kept his gold cap in his jacket.
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[SPEAKER_01]: Although Allen's wife said he had a blue car already in 2022, Liggit left out that she said Allen purchased the coat just a couple of years ago.
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[SPEAKER_01]: The girls were killed in 2017 and this was 2022.
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[SPEAKER_00]: So after all the information that Liggit proposed to the court and the
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[SPEAKER_00]: law enforcement seized from Allen's home multiple items, including a six-soyer gun, knives, casings, and the car heart type jacket with a white and yellow patch on the front pocket.
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[SPEAKER_00]: These items featured prominently during Allen's trial.
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[SPEAKER_01]: Allen denies that the bullet is his that the bridge guy that he was bridge guy or had anything to do with the murders.
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[SPEAKER_01]: At the scene, officers found an unspent, unfired 40 caliber smithin' west and cartridge near Libby's right ankle.
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[SPEAKER_01]: When ISP analyst Melissa Oberg, Cycle 6 cartridges through Allen's gun, she did not find any marks that matched the marks on the Cycle's round.
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[SPEAKER_01]: At the scene, thus she could not establish a link between Allen's gun and the unspent round at the scene.
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[SPEAKER_01]: Oberg then fired four cartridges from Allen's gun.
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[SPEAKER_01]: She compared the markings on these spint cartridges to the markings on the unspint cartridge at the scene, then she concluded that Allen's gun was the source of some of the markings on the unspint cartridge at the murder scene.
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[SPEAKER_01]: And there's a side note that Bridgeguys' coat did not have a patch like the ones that they seized from Allen's home.
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[SPEAKER_00]: law enforcement interrogated Allen again for about an hour and a half.
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[SPEAKER_00]: Detective Holman accused Allen of killing Abby and Libby or at least being involved.
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[SPEAKER_00]: Allen explained the very day the police asked anyone on the trail to come forward.
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[SPEAKER_00]: That is what he did.
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[SPEAKER_00]: I went for a walk on the trail and I went home and I did not murder too little girls.
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[SPEAKER_00]: Detective Homan repeatedly confronted Allen with Oberg's conclusion that marks on the caseings at the scene, matched his gun.
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[SPEAKER_00]: Each time Allen denied that the bullet at the scene was found from his gun, Homan even claimed the methodology was scientific and like fingerprints.
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[SPEAKER_00]: Exhausted and frustrated by detective Holman's relentless accusations that he murdered Abby and Libby, Alan consistently said he could not tell them what happened to the girls because he did not know.
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[SPEAKER_00]: He did not know how that round got between the girls or how they died.
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[SPEAKER_00]: He infatitated, I did not murder two little girls.
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[SPEAKER_01]: Despite Detective Homan's lying about experts identifying Alan and his voice on the video, Alan continued to deny he was bridge guy.
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[SPEAKER_01]: Detective Homan tried a different lie saying, five witnesses saw Alan with Libby and Abby with Anne A Gun.
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[SPEAKER_01]: Again, Alan said, quote, it did not happen and quote, I don't care how stressed out I get.
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[SPEAKER_01]: I am not going to admit something that I had nothing to do with.
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[SPEAKER_01]: Detective Home had tried to use Allen's depression against him, claiming it was because he killed two little girls.
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[SPEAKER_01]: That did not work.
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[SPEAKER_01]: Detective Home and even used Allen's wife as an interrogation tool.
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[SPEAKER_01]: While Allen was being interrogated, ISP told her that the bullet at the scene Master has been's gun.
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[SPEAKER_01]: When they brought her into sea Allen, he hugged her and said it's going to be alright.
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[SPEAKER_01]: While left alone together, she asked how his bullet got at the scene and how he repeated what he told detective home and, quote, I am not going to say something I did not do and I can't explain something I don't understand.
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[SPEAKER_01]: He told her a quote, I know that no bullet from my gun was connected with a murder in any way shape or form.
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[SPEAKER_01]: Indiana State Police lied to Allen's wife, too, telling her that a witness identified Allen.
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[SPEAKER_01]: Allen assured her they are not going to get away with this and told her I am sorry you are having too hurt.
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[SPEAKER_01]: I am sorry that I am having to go through it.
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[SPEAKER_00]: Just a few days after 50-year-old Allen was arrested for the first time in his life, he was sent to Indiana Department of Corrections as a safe keeper.
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[SPEAKER_00]: Indiana DOC transferred him to the Westville Correctional Unit and Maximum Security Segregation Unit for the worst of the worst.
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[SPEAKER_00]: The movies refer to it as the whole, used mostly to punish.
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[SPEAKER_00]: Alan was the first safe keeper in any DOC employees' memory to be placed in Westville Correctional.
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[SPEAKER_00]: Pre-trial sake keepers with mental health issues are usually placed in a mental health unit.
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[SPEAKER_00]: DOC, New Allen, had major depressive disorder, and was hospitalized in 2019 for suicide ideation.
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[SPEAKER_00]: He received a D mental health code, the second most severe, enticing him to one out of cell psychology visit each week.
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[SPEAKER_00]: During the visits, Allen was shackled and confined in a three by three-foot cage separated from the psychologist.
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[SPEAKER_00]: Allen had no face-to-face interaction unless shackled or separated by bars.
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[SPEAKER_00]: Outside his cell, he was restrained with leg arms, handcuffs, and a belly chain on a lead.
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[SPEAKER_00]: Other Westfield inmates in general population lived in dorms,
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[SPEAKER_00]: Eight together, watch TV, and move around more freely.
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[SPEAKER_00]: Alan was placed in a strip cell, stripped of everything but the bare necessities.
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[SPEAKER_00]: Alan cell was eight by 12 with a camera, a mattress, that was on a concrete slab with a bug in festation.
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[SPEAKER_00]: His only view was a narrow window facing a razor wire fence.
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[SPEAKER_00]: He had a loan on the floor or on his bed.
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[SPEAKER_01]: That'd make anybody crazy.
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[SPEAKER_00]: Allen was recorded 24-7 with a suicide companion outside his cell door writing down his statements and behavior and guards with video cameras filming his showers and his movements outside the cell, also attorney meetings.
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[SPEAKER_00]: depression and even caused psychosis, and their policy restricts the time inmates with serious mental illness can stay in solitary confinement to 30 days.
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[SPEAKER_00]: But DOC did not apply that policy to Allen, and he remained in the most secure solitary cell in Westville, Correctional Unit for 13 months.
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[SPEAKER_01]: When Richard Allen arrived at the prison in November of 2022, Allen appeared like a deer in the headlights, but was coherent, quiet, and weighed 180 pounds.
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[SPEAKER_01]: By April of 2023, he weighed 135 pounds, with psychotic and gravely disabled.
22:54.488 --> 23:00.235
[SPEAKER_01]: Early in custody Allen maintained innocence and believed solitary was meant to tear him down.
23:00.876 --> 23:06.163
[SPEAKER_01]: He told the psychologist, Dr. Wala, he felt like a quote broken man after two weeks.
23:06.582 --> 23:09.205
[SPEAKER_01]: Allen described a quiet, normal life previously.
23:09.865 --> 23:12.168
[SPEAKER_01]: Allen was extremely devoted to his wife.
23:13.069 --> 23:22.459
[SPEAKER_01]: On November 14th, 2022, he emotionally told her, if this becomes too much for you, call the detectives and I will tell them whatever they want to know.
23:23.280 --> 23:30.227
[SPEAKER_01]: By January 26th of 2023, Allen was expressing paranoia, in late March and early April,
23:30.511 --> 23:36.781
[SPEAKER_01]: Around the time Allen received his discovery and met with his attorneys, Allen's behavior suddenly worsened.
23:37.262 --> 23:39.105
[SPEAKER_01]: Guard thought he was quote-acting up.
23:39.566 --> 23:48.521
[SPEAKER_01]: He refused meals, became non-sensical, spoke of old bear claw, hypnotizing him, and acted like he was from mid-eval times.
23:49.182 --> 23:53.970
[SPEAKER_01]: He ripped legal mail, washed his face in the toilet, and drank toilet water.
23:54.912 --> 24:00.888
[SPEAKER_01]: He stuck a sport in his genitalia and covered himself in feces, spit and vomit.
24:01.670 --> 24:11.436
[SPEAKER_01]: Video from the early April showed Alan Frighten, extremely thin, bleeding, shaking, contorting and interacting with non-existent stimuli.
24:12.648 --> 24:17.114
[SPEAKER_01]: He was pacing back and forth, eating as Bible, and hitting his head on the cell door.
24:17.895 --> 24:30.230
[SPEAKER_01]: On a video from April 12, he was naked while he flapped his hands, punched in the air, counted imaginary objects, pulled feces from his anus, and smeared it into food, and marched in place.
24:31.852 --> 24:42.385
[SPEAKER_00]: On April 14, the DOC ordered involuntary medication and found him gravely disabled.
24:42.871 --> 24:46.797
[SPEAKER_00]: He had lost an abnormal amount of weight and was not sleeping.
24:47.479 --> 24:49.682
[SPEAKER_00]: Haledaw produced minimal improvement.
24:50.143 --> 25:04.707
[SPEAKER_00]: He continued to speak in loose associations about things like nuclear war, poisoning, dying, losing reality, cryogenic eyeballs, and not remembering confessions he had already given.
25:04.747 --> 25:07.832
[SPEAKER_00]: He also continued to play with his feces.
25:08.217 --> 25:15.168
[SPEAKER_00]: After letting Allen sit in his feces for two hours on April 23, he was removed from his cell and given a shower.
25:16.550 --> 25:30.732
[SPEAKER_00]: Allen's symptoms continued through May, a May-third Dr. Wala diagnosed Allen with a brief psychotic disorder, noting he had disorganized speech and behavior, but no delusions or hallucinations.
25:31.167 --> 25:34.694
[SPEAKER_00]: On May 25, his shot was still not working.
25:35.275 --> 25:41.026
[SPEAKER_00]: Alan Pace for two hours and banged the back and front of his head on a metal door for about an hour.
25:41.086 --> 25:48.280
[SPEAKER_00]: Despite his self-injury and visible Gooseg on his head, no one checked on him.
25:48.320 --> 25:53.310
[SPEAKER_00]: The next day, Alan had two black eyes from banging his head.
25:53.999 --> 26:02.974
[SPEAKER_00]: And on June 5th, DOC was administered another 30-day involuntary hallidaw injection.
26:03.615 --> 26:08.803
[SPEAKER_00]: On June 20th, 2023, Allen was catatonic and extremely skinny.
26:09.544 --> 26:19.821
[SPEAKER_00]: Garg's carrying carried him to the infirmary, strapped in a chair, after his visit, he
26:20.392 --> 26:33.768
[SPEAKER_00]: That same day, Dr. Martin claimed Allen was coherent, oriented, and not psychotic, and had been free of psychosis for seven weeks, returning to baseline on May 2nd.
26:34.369 --> 26:41.558
[SPEAKER_01]: Allen confessed to his family over the phone, April 3rd, May 10th, May 17th, June 5th, and June 11th.
26:42.099 --> 26:44.281
[SPEAKER_01]: On April 30th, he told his wife, I did it.
26:44.682 --> 26:49.808
[SPEAKER_01]: I killed Abby and Libby, later
26:50.328 --> 26:54.792
[SPEAKER_01]: On May 17, 2023, Allen insisted to his mother he killed the girls.
26:55.873 --> 27:01.638
[SPEAKER_01]: The next day on May 18, Allen banged his head against the cell door to the point where he had a gash.
27:02.479 --> 27:06.242
[SPEAKER_01]: Allen told his wife he did it, but that he has lost his mind.
27:06.703 --> 27:08.324
[SPEAKER_01]: He is probably going to kill himself.
27:08.925 --> 27:12.568
[SPEAKER_01]: Feels like he is already in hell and does not understand what is happening.
27:13.869 --> 27:20.115
[SPEAKER_00]: From April through June, guards repeatedly heard Allen confess, I killed Abby and
27:21.007 --> 27:23.130
[SPEAKER_00]: Admist his bizarre behavior.
27:23.390 --> 27:28.676
[SPEAKER_00]: His statements occurred while he smeared feces, rolled in it, drink toilet water.
27:29.157 --> 27:39.709
[SPEAKER_00]: Shout it at his shadow, saying masturbated, paced, saluted, as nonsense a cool question's hit his head and even asked if he was dead.
27:40.370 --> 27:50.642
[SPEAKER_00]: On April 29th, Alan made a more specific statement to a guard, claiming he killed two girls in Delphi
27:51.095 --> 27:53.922
[SPEAKER_00]: from and left in the trash at CVS.
27:54.804 --> 27:58.233
[SPEAKER_00]: He was going to rape them, but he panicked and killed them.
27:59.095 --> 28:00.378
[SPEAKER_00]: He said they were screaming.
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[SPEAKER_00]: Just the day before, he was covered in his feces.
28:04.477 --> 28:10.806
[SPEAKER_01]: this is gonna be a two-parter because the brief is pretty long so we're just basically gonna discuss this for a minute.
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[SPEAKER_01]: I tell you what it took a couple of times for us to get through that script because that's some pretty rough shit man.
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[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, I don't know.
28:18.998 --> 28:23.424
[SPEAKER_01]: I saw Alan's interview, and it's first interview.
28:23.745 --> 28:25.367
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I'll have seen both of them.
28:25.547 --> 28:25.988
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, you have.
28:26.008 --> 28:33.859
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, but I mean, you know, everybody has in the opinion man, but it just didn't seem to
28:33.839 --> 28:34.940
[SPEAKER_01]: to do that shit.
28:35.881 --> 28:40.166
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, does all the stuff we read sound like a CVS manager?
28:40.186 --> 28:43.549
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, the dude was smart and poop on his self and stuff.
28:43.870 --> 28:45.271
[SPEAKER_01]: That's pretty messed up.
28:45.532 --> 28:51.098
[SPEAKER_00]: After a 13 months of being locked up in solitary confinement, but you know what?
28:51.118 --> 28:54.922
[SPEAKER_00]: Here's how everybody's looking at it like a two-sided coin.
28:55.622 --> 28:58.926
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, if he's innocent, all this is horrible, which it is.
28:59.407 --> 29:01.669
[SPEAKER_00]: It absolutely is if he's innocent.
29:02.813 --> 29:12.473
[SPEAKER_00]: But if he's guilty, I mean, anybody that murders two girls like that, that's the kind of stuff they deserve.
29:12.534 --> 29:13.215
[SPEAKER_00]: You know what I mean?
29:13.335 --> 29:23.657
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, not deserve, but that's what their life needs to consist of, just a little sale with them getting their food slid to him.
29:23.975 --> 29:24.556
[SPEAKER_00]: through a thing.
29:24.636 --> 29:29.563
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, I even I think that's too good for somebody who murders two little girls.
29:29.783 --> 29:31.185
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, I agree 100%.
29:31.245 --> 29:38.014
[SPEAKER_01]: And I tell you what, I've known some people in interviews and people that's been in Westfield, prison, and it's a fucking horrible place.
29:38.896 --> 29:45.705
[SPEAKER_01]: And for them to restrict people to be in the solitary confinement that he was for only 30 days at a time.
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[SPEAKER_01]: And he was in there for 13 months.
29:48.849 --> 29:49.290
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean,
29:50.975 --> 29:52.982
[SPEAKER_01]: Hell, I'd probably be rubbing shit on myself.
29:54.086 --> 29:57.217
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't know, that's pretty fucked up.
29:57.639 --> 30:03.178
[SPEAKER_01]: And the reason I say that about his interview is because just his reaction when they said,
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[SPEAKER_01]: Oh yeah, Richard this bullet did come from your gun and he laughed.
30:09.060 --> 30:18.772
[SPEAKER_01]: He was like, no, if no, it fucking didn't like he literally laughed at him like and it wasn't a laugh like he was fake and it was a laugh like Like you're gonna be like you're fool it.
30:18.792 --> 30:19.773
[SPEAKER_01]: You're fool a shit dude.
30:19.793 --> 30:28.423
[SPEAKER_01]: You're lying to me to try to get me to confess like cops do Some you know most cops Right goodness
30:28.927 --> 30:35.516
[SPEAKER_01]: And you know, I have some feelings about how they match that bullet to the gun, too.
30:35.696 --> 30:55.221
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, if those ejection marks are so, you know, forensically true, then why did she eject six shells out of it, and could not get, yeah, unspit shells, which is like the shell that they found an unspit round means it was not fired.
30:55.201 --> 31:05.174
[SPEAKER_01]: She ejected six of those out of his pistol and could not get them to match the one at the crime scene, but then she fired four rounds and she matched.
31:05.514 --> 31:08.598
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm not exactly sure how many she said she matched maybe one or two.
31:08.698 --> 31:09.279
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm not sure.
31:09.339 --> 31:12.483
[SPEAKER_01]: Don't quote me on how many they matched after it was fired.
31:13.945 --> 31:23.858
[SPEAKER_01]: But if you've ever ejected bullets out of a semi-automatic pistol, sometimes it doesn't leave any marks and they're talking about
31:24.682 --> 31:28.245
[SPEAKER_01]: just the marks that the little two little rods fly out.
31:29.086 --> 31:42.459
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, I don't think the dude, I don't know how many times he shot his gun, but then six hours, they make them, all the parts, especially the ones that he jacked, they're all made, I mean, damn near identical.
31:42.860 --> 31:44.101
[SPEAKER_01]: Damn near identical.
31:44.561 --> 31:45.702
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't know where they go ahead.
31:46.003 --> 31:53.490
[SPEAKER_00]: What do you think the odds are of that being a true matching, being his guy?
31:54.179 --> 31:56.322
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't trust the science of that myself.
31:57.203 --> 31:58.804
[SPEAKER_00]: I looked up some science on that.
31:59.045 --> 31:59.305
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
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[SPEAKER_00]: So I looked up, you know, like this scenario.
32:03.710 --> 32:14.883
[SPEAKER_00]: And what I learned is that the scenario described was referred to the forensic ballistic testing in the Delphi murders.
32:14.903 --> 32:24.034
[SPEAKER_00]: The firearms examiner tested Allen six-soyer by cycling six-imper, unfired rounds,
32:24.588 --> 32:43.833
[SPEAKER_00]: Now black box studies on firearm tool mark identification estimate false positive rates where an examiner incorrectly identifies a match between items from different guns at approximately 0.9% to 1%.
32:44.293 --> 32:54.426
[SPEAKER_00]: However, the studies primary involve comparisons between
32:54.845 --> 32:56.808
[SPEAKER_00]: as in the case.
32:57.409 --> 33:08.648
[SPEAKER_00]: Critics, including the defense expert, argued that comparing fired casings to an unbired one, introduces additional uncertainty, potentially increasing the risk of error.
33:10.932 --> 33:18.625
[SPEAKER_01]: So, giving me the percentage of the, so the percentage of accuracy was the, the point nine to one percent.
33:20.410 --> 33:24.938
[SPEAKER_00]: That's like 9% to 1.
33:25.639 --> 33:26.400
[SPEAKER_00]: That's still.
33:26.500 --> 33:27.823
[SPEAKER_01]: That's, that's come on.
33:27.843 --> 33:29.445
[SPEAKER_01]: They shouldn't be able to use that in court.
33:29.465 --> 33:45.793
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, you would think that, I mean, I mean, I've seen the, the forensics when they use it on a fire pin, because the firing pins, they'll all wear it a little bit different, because people shoot different rounds out of their, out of their guns, and
33:45.773 --> 33:53.145
[SPEAKER_01]: I've also seen the forensic testing where they use the rifling of the barrels, and I get that, even.
33:53.767 --> 34:02.782
[SPEAKER_01]: But an ejected shell, and then you eject six out of it, and none of them match, it's grasping its draws at best for me.
34:02.802 --> 34:06.448
[SPEAKER_01]: And you know, Richard Allen would not even be on the radar.
34:06.428 --> 34:09.913
[SPEAKER_01]: if he had to voluntarily win in there to try to help him.
34:10.053 --> 34:16.503
[SPEAKER_01]: Maybe I saw something that could help you guys find the killer to these two little girls.
34:17.564 --> 34:29.181
[SPEAKER_00]: Now, so, well, Dr. Eric Warren said that firing changes in the middle properties of the casing, making direct comparisons unreliable.
34:30.623 --> 34:35.170
[SPEAKER_01]: So, yeah, I agree with that.
34:35.858 --> 34:59.908
[SPEAKER_00]: and then legal analyst and critics noted that this deviate the protocol that she used deviates from standard protocols and there are no validated studies specifically supporting conclusion identifications between fire tested casings and unbuyred evidence cartridges in this manner.
35:00.698 --> 35:02.461
[SPEAKER_01]: see I just don't trust that shit.
35:02.822 --> 35:23.820
[SPEAKER_01]: I just don't it's wild and to be locked up in solitary confinement for 13 months and you know if the other prisoners in there I mean we all know what they do to rapist murderers anybody that hurts little kids they just they torture them and by the time you're sent to Westville you're
35:24.340 --> 35:51.630
[SPEAKER_01]: adjudicated guilty normally that it was in pre-trial people there so exactly he was guilty the moment he walked in there to everybody there and and also it wasn't like he was there by his self where he could think on his own time they had a what about the quote unquote suicide buddies that they had sitting there oh yeah suicide companions who the companion were they were they in may the prisoners
35:51.610 --> 35:55.817
[SPEAKER_00]: So they're letting other prisoners just watch this dude and write down whatever they want.
35:55.917 --> 35:56.758
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, he said this.
35:56.818 --> 35:57.419
[SPEAKER_00]: He said this.
35:57.480 --> 35:58.061
[SPEAKER_00]: Exactly.
35:58.121 --> 35:58.842
[SPEAKER_01]: Exactly.
35:59.543 --> 36:01.646
[SPEAKER_01]: And that you know that I mean not all of them.
36:01.706 --> 36:10.240
[SPEAKER_01]: Some of them may have been good Christians or whatever, but in my mind, you know, I'm thinking there's probably sitting there saying, you little bitch, you killed him.
36:10.260 --> 36:11.863
[SPEAKER_01]: Girls, you deserve to die.
36:11.843 --> 36:14.986
[SPEAKER_01]: You got the psychiatrist doping you up and telling him you did it.
36:15.707 --> 36:19.471
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, you got, it's just, it's, it's, it's a horrible fucking deal.
36:19.992 --> 36:24.637
[SPEAKER_01]: I tell you, man, if the dude did it, I'd rub shit on him myself, you know?
36:24.657 --> 36:29.923
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm saying, but, uh, I just, I just don't know with this one.
36:30.263 --> 36:35.910
[SPEAKER_01]: I, I get a pretty good read on people, man, and I just, I'm, I'm having a hard time buying the case.
36:37.011 --> 36:40.635
[SPEAKER_01]: The confessions is what ultimately got him, but we're going to get into that too later.
36:41.189 --> 36:52.043
[SPEAKER_00]: I often wondered, you know, whenever they interviewed you and then they marked it clear in the tips, file or folder, it said it got misfiled.
36:52.503 --> 36:58.030
[SPEAKER_00]: But if it was filed as cleared, then what should it have been filed under?
36:58.070 --> 37:01.054
[SPEAKER_00]: If not cleared, why would you go back and look at cleared?
37:01.388 --> 37:05.793
[SPEAKER_01]: Right, well, they said a clerk, I pretty sure found the error.
37:05.893 --> 37:09.256
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, how would you know if it was an error if it just was marked clear?
37:09.457 --> 37:09.717
[SPEAKER_01]: Right.
37:09.937 --> 37:10.418
[SPEAKER_01]: Exactly.
37:10.458 --> 37:11.359
[SPEAKER_00]: Like how would you know?
37:11.679 --> 37:12.480
[SPEAKER_01]: That's a good point.
37:15.043 --> 37:21.069
[SPEAKER_00]: But you know, I see why the jury did vote him guilty.
37:21.129 --> 37:24.032
[SPEAKER_00]: They just couldn't overcome them confessions.
37:24.312 --> 37:26.755
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, to some people, it's just,
37:27.055 --> 37:39.229
[SPEAKER_00]: you can't even wrap your mind around admitting to something that you didn't do especially murder two little girls and that just coming out of somebody's mouth is absolutely wild to them.
37:39.269 --> 37:43.354
[SPEAKER_00]: And he said it so many times he did.
37:43.374 --> 37:50.182
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, I ate it minute, but I don't most swayed me.
37:50.202 --> 37:51.023
[SPEAKER_01]: I know.
37:51.323 --> 37:51.603
[SPEAKER_01]: I know.
37:51.844 --> 37:52.885
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm undecided.
37:52.925 --> 37:54.767
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm undecided too, but
37:55.220 --> 38:07.902
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't think as a CBS manager that he went home every night and rubbed poop on himself and jacked off and shouted at his shadows and looked out of the toilet like a dog either.
38:08.463 --> 38:14.474
[SPEAKER_01]: So all of his behavior was, was, well that was months out of the ordinary.
38:14.815 --> 38:18.100
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, the confessions were quite a ways into the confinement, too.
38:18.661 --> 38:20.164
[SPEAKER_01]: And it's funny how they said,
38:20.600 --> 38:40.321
[SPEAKER_01]: six months in, I think that's quite a long ways into a solitary confinement, and it was also, I thought that it was weird that one day Allen was drooling on himself and rubbing shit all over itself, and the next day the psychiatrist marked him down as normal.
38:42.864 --> 38:46.928
[SPEAKER_00]: So, I mean, yeah, it's like the records aren't matching.
38:47.313 --> 38:51.259
[SPEAKER_01]: No, and I tell you what, you give somebody enough shots of how with all in their ass.
38:51.299 --> 38:52.722
[SPEAKER_01]: They're going to die.
38:52.862 --> 38:54.404
[SPEAKER_01]: They don't know what the fuck they're saying.
38:54.424 --> 38:56.327
[SPEAKER_01]: They're just saying whatever, you know.
38:57.529 --> 39:00.674
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't know, man, I don't see it on this one.
39:01.095 --> 39:02.156
[SPEAKER_01]: And I feel guilty.
39:02.196 --> 39:11.331
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm torn because I would feel like a piece of shit if he really did do it because I am all for justice for having Libby 100%.
39:11.852 --> 39:13.995
[SPEAKER_01]: It was a horrific crime.
39:14.701 --> 39:18.505
[SPEAKER_01]: if he did it then all the stuff is validated in my opinion.
39:19.046 --> 39:40.371
[SPEAKER_00]: But you know there was a lot of talk along the way that of evidence that people didn't get to see and in this brief it lays out a lot of information that you know were maybe rumors here and there, but now they've put it in this brief to go to the appellate court and I don't think they'd be putting it in that brief if it didn't hold any type of weight.
39:40.908 --> 39:41.450
[SPEAKER_01]: I agree.
39:41.571 --> 39:46.610
[SPEAKER_01]: I think at least he needs to be allowed another trial.
39:46.771 --> 39:52.352
[SPEAKER_01]: I know, man, there's going to be people out there that say, why put the family through this again.
39:52.923 --> 40:07.873
[SPEAKER_01]: But there's enough people that doubt, and there's enough doubt in my mind, and the police jacked this thing up from the gate, lying to get the search warrant, that should be fruits from a poisonous tree, as they call it, isn't it?
40:08.174 --> 40:09.356
[SPEAKER_00]: I think so, like that.
40:10.138 --> 40:13.665
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, but it's just, I don't know, it's,
40:15.164 --> 40:19.731
[SPEAKER_01]: If y'all listen to this and follow us on Facebook, let us know what you think about the Richard on case.
40:19.751 --> 40:32.211
[SPEAKER_01]: We're going to put a post about this and I cannot wait to get into the second part of this episode because it gets really good what needs to be re-educated in my eyes.
40:33.192 --> 40:34.354
[SPEAKER_00]: Absolutely.
40:34.334 --> 40:46.874
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, that does wrap up part one of the Richard Allen appeal case, and if you support what we do, go to www.patreon.com forward slash 69 South.
40:46.894 --> 40:50.720
[SPEAKER_01]: Help us keep the lights on the studio until then have a wonderful day.
40:51.521 --> 40:52.022
[SPEAKER_01]: Good evening.
00:00.537 --> 00:10.792
[SPEAKER_01]: Welcome everyone to podcast 69 South where we kiss and discuss true crime and co-cases, current events and hot topics along with our state of society today.
00:11.853 --> 00:13.175
[SPEAKER_01]: This is your trigger warning.
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[SPEAKER_01]: Our podcast content is produced for adult listeners 18 years of age and older.
00:18.683 --> 00:24.992
[SPEAKER_01]: We discuss situations that may be offensive and triggering for some listeners sit back, relax and enjoy it.
00:29.039 --> 00:31.141
[SPEAKER_01]: Welcome back everybody to 69 South.
00:31.241 --> 00:34.825
[SPEAKER_01]: I am Chop and Ryan Shotgun is my beautiful co-host, Julie.
00:34.845 --> 00:35.685
[SPEAKER_01]: How are you doing today?
00:35.726 --> 00:37.788
[SPEAKER_00]: Amazing as always.
00:38.388 --> 00:41.952
[SPEAKER_01]: Today we're going to bring you up to speed on the Richard Allen appeal case.
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[SPEAKER_00]: And in case you don't remember or know who Richard Allen is, he was convicted of murdering the two little girls in Delphi back in 2017.
00:56.056 --> 01:07.844
[SPEAKER_00]: and they initially filed to file an appeal in March of 2025, but they just got the brief filed December 18th.
01:08.346 --> 01:11.854
[SPEAKER_00]: So we're going to jump into that and let you all know what it says.
01:11.986 --> 01:27.186
[SPEAKER_01]: So the statement of issue are whether the search warrant of Allen's home was unconstitutional and the resulting evidence in admissible were in admissible because law enforcement omitted or altered key facts in the warrant application.
01:27.947 --> 01:41.706
[SPEAKER_01]: Number two, whether statements Allen made while gravely disabled during unprecedented pre-trial solitary confinement were involuntary the product of unconstitutional detention and in admissible.
01:41.686 --> 01:52.096
[SPEAKER_01]: Number three of this part was whether the trial denied Alan his right to a fair trial to present and complete defense to explain the scene and in Pete's new investigation.
01:52.697 --> 02:10.815
[SPEAKER_00]: Now their statement of case is that on October 28th of 2022, the state charged Richard Allen with two counts of felony murder by kidnapping, which was amended on March 22nd, 2024 to add
02:11.588 --> 02:20.066
[SPEAKER_00]: On November 11th, 2024, following a 25-day trial, the jury returned a guilty verdict on all accounts.
02:20.968 --> 02:26.018
[SPEAKER_00]: The trial court sentenced Allen to an aggregate sentence of 130 years.
02:26.900 --> 02:31.690
[SPEAKER_00]: Allen filed a motion to correct errors, which the trial court denied.
02:32.125 --> 02:41.273
[SPEAKER_01]: Now the statement of the facts are on February 14, 2017, 14-year-old Libby German and 13-year-old Abbey Williams were found dead in the woods.
02:41.954 --> 02:49.200
[SPEAKER_01]: Two days later, Allen, like many others, came forward and reported that he had been on the trail that day and saw three girls.
02:49.541 --> 03:02.132
[SPEAKER_01]: Now because of law enforcement wanted to know whether he had seen any quote possible suspects, he was interviewed in a parking lot.
03:02.112 --> 03:06.538
[SPEAKER_01]: Allen then returned to his job, family, and home in the small-delfay community.
03:07.019 --> 03:16.012
[SPEAKER_01]: For the next five years, he did not sell his car, destroy his clothes, dispose of his guns, or relocate, but continued his normal routine.
03:16.693 --> 03:19.277
[SPEAKER_01]: No witnesses identified Allen as Bridge Guy.
03:19.878 --> 03:31.815
[SPEAKER_01]: When the report was rediscovered in September of 2022, law enforcement insisted Allen was Bridge Guy without a single eyewitness.
03:32.791 --> 03:36.575
[SPEAKER_00]: So here we get into the warrant and the Bridge Guy video.
03:37.056 --> 03:49.008
[SPEAKER_00]: On February 13, 2017, around 1.30 pm, Libby's older sister dropped off, Libby and Abby at the Monon High Bridge Trail to explore and take photos.
03:49.869 --> 03:54.374
[SPEAKER_00]: The girls had the day off from school and the weather was unseasonably warm.
03:55.075 --> 04:01.161
[SPEAKER_00]: When the girls felt to meet Libby's father at this specified time and no one could reach them,
04:01.546 --> 04:06.390
[SPEAKER_00]: Libby's family contacted police and then extensive search began.
04:06.430 --> 04:13.837
[SPEAKER_00]: The next day around noon the girls were found murdered in the woods near Dier Creek, not far from the high bridge.
04:14.658 --> 04:21.864
[SPEAKER_00]: The best evidence law enforcement had was from Libby's phone found at the scene under Abbey's body.
04:23.826 --> 04:30.372
[SPEAKER_00]: Libby recorded a 43 second video showing Abbey walking across the bridge was someone
04:32.073 --> 04:39.703
[SPEAKER_00]: meaning they're thinking bridge guy behind her law enforcement enhanced the video yielding the following.
04:40.524 --> 04:43.568
[SPEAKER_00]: The man has heard telling the girls down the hill.
04:44.209 --> 04:47.353
[SPEAKER_01]: Law enforcement set up a tip line and many people came forward.
04:47.373 --> 04:53.020
[SPEAKER_01]: 16 year old RV, her sister's IV and A.S. and her friend B.W.
04:53.100 --> 04:54.823
[SPEAKER_01]: told police that they were on the trail.
04:55.243 --> 04:59.008
[SPEAKER_01]: And as they were leaving, they saw a man near the entrance to the Freedom Bridge.
05:01.098 --> 05:11.412
[SPEAKER_01]: Betsy Blair, who frequently walked the trails for exercise, came forward and told police she saw a white man on the high bridge standing on a platform and seemed to be waiting for someone.
05:11.893 --> 05:17.520
[SPEAKER_01]: She thought the man was the guy in the bridge video because he was wearing the same clothes.
05:18.081 --> 05:21.346
[SPEAKER_01]: When she reached the bridge, she turned around and noticed the two girls approaching.
05:22.107 --> 05:25.992
[SPEAKER_01]: Four months after the murder, law enforcement interviewed Sarah Carball,
05:26.495 --> 05:30.763
[SPEAKER_01]: She told police that don't February 13 while driving eastbound on county road 300.
05:31.504 --> 05:35.691
[SPEAKER_01]: She saw a muddy man wearing a tan coat walking west toward town.
05:36.433 --> 05:42.543
[SPEAKER_01]: After seeing the image of the bridge guy in the media, Carba said that he possibly was the man she had seen.
05:43.745 --> 05:45.769
[SPEAKER_00]: So five and a half years later.
05:46.070 --> 05:52.397
[SPEAKER_00]: On September 21, 2022, law enforcement rediscovered the tip from Allen.
05:53.078 --> 05:58.845
[SPEAKER_00]: Allen called and said he was on the bridge between maybe one and three and saw three girls.
05:59.646 --> 06:11.520
[SPEAKER_00]: Allen shared his address, phone number, and M-E-I-D number, which is a unique identifier that can be used to track a phone's location.
06:13.103 --> 06:18.893
[SPEAKER_00]: The lead investigators immediately started investigating now 50-year-old Allen.
06:19.554 --> 06:25.044
[SPEAKER_00]: They believed that the man, the four girls, RV and others, saw on the trail was bridge guy.
06:26.166 --> 06:32.817
[SPEAKER_00]: Allen still lived in the same house and he worked at the same CVS store in Delphi as he did in 2017.
06:33.353 --> 06:51.033
[SPEAKER_00]: On October 13, 2022, when police showed up at his house, Allen agreed to talk with them after writing to the police station, Allen patiently answered questions about his personal life and the walkie took on his day off five and a half years earlier.
06:51.073 --> 06:57.640
[SPEAKER_00]: Allen explained after spending the morning with his mom on February 13, 2017.
06:57.940 --> 07:00.906
[SPEAKER_00]: He went home to get a jacket before going to the trails.
07:01.567 --> 07:04.353
[SPEAKER_00]: He walked out to the first platform of the high bridge.
07:04.814 --> 07:10.906
[SPEAKER_00]: Looked at the fish and then walked back before returning home to watch the stock market.
07:11.668 --> 07:16.658
[SPEAKER_01]: He explained that he came forward after law enforcement asked to speak with anyone who had been on the trail.
07:17.026 --> 07:20.391
[SPEAKER_01]: The next day, a DNR officer interviewed him in a parking lot.
07:20.991 --> 07:26.499
[SPEAKER_01]: Alan believed that he told the officer he was on the trail between noon and 1.30 or 1.45.
07:27.300 --> 07:30.284
[SPEAKER_01]: He could only recall seeing three girls leaving the trail.
07:31.185 --> 07:35.471
[SPEAKER_01]: Being five years past, Alan could not remember what car he drove or the close he wore.
07:36.072 --> 07:38.395
[SPEAKER_01]: He remembered wearing blue jeans and a jacket.
07:39.096 --> 07:44.063
[SPEAKER_01]: When asked what type of jacket Alan did not remember, and listed all the jackets he
07:44.549 --> 07:51.515
[SPEAKER_01]: a blue car heart, a black car heart, or an off-brand with a hood, sweat shirts, hoodies, and a fleece.
07:52.256 --> 07:54.078
[SPEAKER_01]: He kept his go-kap in his jacket.
07:54.618 --> 07:57.080
[SPEAKER_01]: He could have been wearing tennis shoes or boots.
07:57.821 --> 08:07.810
[SPEAKER_01]: When law enforcement asked for consent to search, Allen expressed concern that they were making him somebody's fall guy by trying to fit pieces together that did not fit close to the case.
08:08.451 --> 08:14.556
[SPEAKER_01]: He was confused, thinking they were talking to him to look for helpful information.
08:14.536 --> 08:19.845
[SPEAKER_01]: Although he understood they had to clear everyone on the trail, he was bothered by the time passage.
08:20.827 --> 08:34.471
[SPEAKER_00]: After a break, law enforcement returned more confrontational with Allen, who became frustrated with being accused of murder and law enforcement contacting his wife and daughter while he was at the station.
08:35.473 --> 08:39.700
[SPEAKER_00]: Confronting Allen with the bridge guy photo, Allen responded.
08:40.068 --> 08:43.832
[SPEAKER_00]: If that is taken with the girls' phone, that is not me.
08:44.112 --> 08:45.974
[SPEAKER_00]: I have never met those girls before.
08:46.034 --> 08:57.587
[SPEAKER_00]: They accused Alan of admitting he wore the same clothes as Brige Guy and Alan corrected the investigator reminding him that he said he could have been wearing a sweatshirt.
08:58.208 --> 09:03.253
[SPEAKER_00]: Alan added that everyone has looked at Brige, the Brige Guy photo for years.
09:03.754 --> 09:07.898
[SPEAKER_00]: To him, it did not even look like Brige Guy was wearing a car heart.
09:08.755 --> 09:20.916
[SPEAKER_00]: Finally, when law enforcement accused him of either being out there to kill the girls or introduce them to someone, Allen said, good luck finding anything that points to that.
09:21.878 --> 09:28.670
[SPEAKER_00]: Despite Allen repeatedly telling law enforcement, arrest me or take me home, they would not stop.
09:29.351 --> 09:33.919
[SPEAKER_00]: Allen eventually had to get up and walk out in the interview.
09:34.962 --> 09:38.789
[SPEAKER_01]: Now, this is the story that Detective Ligget told the judge to get the search warrant.
09:39.229 --> 09:45.380
[SPEAKER_01]: On October 13, 2022, the state applied for your warrant for Alan's home, Car and Electronics.
09:46.041 --> 09:53.494
[SPEAKER_01]: Detective Ligget's probable cause after David, he concluded that Alan is the last individual to have contact with Libby and Abby.
09:53.474 --> 09:58.940
[SPEAKER_01]: and is the individual depicted on the mode on high bridge from the video taken from Libby's phone.
09:59.440 --> 10:14.596
[SPEAKER_01]: He reasoned that Alan admitted he was wearing a blue jacket and head covering like Bridge Guy and was on the trail bridge around the time of the abduction and witnesses saw a man that they believed to be Bridge Guy wearing a blue jacket.
10:15.136 --> 10:21.523
[SPEAKER_01]: Detective Legit implied Blair and the girls saw the same man because they similarly described his jacket.
10:21.622 --> 10:30.491
[SPEAKER_01]: also detected ligate concluded that Allen drove his black 2016 Ford Focus and parked at the old CPS building on 300 North.
10:31.152 --> 10:36.017
[SPEAKER_01]: He claimed that witnesses saw a car back into a parking lot spot in the CPS building.
10:36.778 --> 10:40.682
[SPEAKER_01]: Wilson felt that the driver of the car was trying to conceal the license.
10:40.702 --> 10:49.131
[SPEAKER_01]: Wilson said that the car was a purple PT cruiser or small SUV type vehicle.
10:50.782 --> 10:54.685
[SPEAKER_01]: that they saw parked in the same general area and manner.
10:55.586 --> 11:07.777
[SPEAKER_00]: Now, the part of the story, Detective Ligget, did not tell the judge was about the differences between Blair's description of the man on the bridge and Alan's appearance.
11:08.557 --> 11:19.827
[SPEAKER_00]: Just three days after the murders, Blair's description are described the man as white
11:20.853 --> 11:26.979
[SPEAKER_00]: An artist completed this sketch which Blair rated 18 at a 10 for accuracy.
11:27.760 --> 11:50.303
[SPEAKER_00]: In 2019, Detective Legit personally interviewed Blair who again described the man as slender, useful, boyish looking in his 20s to early 30s, no facial hair and with poofy hair
11:51.127 --> 11:56.992
[SPEAKER_00]: At the time of the murders, Allen was 44 years old, five, six, and had very short hair.
11:58.413 --> 12:02.757
[SPEAKER_00]: Now, Blair's description of the oddly park card did not match Allen's.
12:03.738 --> 12:19.632
[SPEAKER_00]: Detective Liggae also admitted Blair's description of the oddly park car as resembling a 1965 Ford comment with sharper angles, which they compared with images.
12:20.793 --> 12:40.539
[SPEAKER_01]: of her drawing to Richard Allen's hatchback vehicle and in this paperwork there is the sketch and it does look like an older car with like a box car and Allen's car doesn't look anything like that or a PT or a purple PT creature whatsoever.
12:40.959 --> 12:50.732
[SPEAKER_00]: Blair also said the oddly park car
12:52.703 --> 13:01.516
[SPEAKER_00]: Next, they said that Blair did not believe the man on the bridge was the same man, Carball saw walking down the road.
13:02.217 --> 13:12.231
[SPEAKER_00]: Detective Ligget omitted that Blair told him the man Carball described walking down the road is not the same man she saw on the bridge.
13:13.325 --> 13:24.379
[SPEAKER_00]: And then below is the sketch of the image that the ISP put out of the man with the hat on.
13:24.719 --> 13:30.386
[SPEAKER_01]: Right, which is definitely, it definitely looks like an older man with a hat on.
13:31.227 --> 13:41.880
[SPEAKER_01]: It's almost like they took the image that the lady said she saw walking with no hat in her 20s, a young younger kid, no facial hair.
13:42.333 --> 13:52.613
[SPEAKER_01]: what the other person said right and kind of made it look like this dude, which I'm sure you waited a little bit absolutely which will post all these on the on the face book.
13:52.897 --> 14:03.353
[SPEAKER_00]: After talking with Blair in 2019, ISP issued a press release, distinguishing the man Karabaw saw from a man on the bridge.
14:03.974 --> 14:16.373
[SPEAKER_00]: The ISP explained in the men are not the same person and that Blair sketch is representative of the face of the person captured in the video of Libby cell phone.
14:17.382 --> 14:22.347
[SPEAKER_00]: Next, Carball said the man walking down the road was wearing a tan coat.
14:23.228 --> 14:27.252
[SPEAKER_00]: Detective ligate also made ball statements in the affidavit.
14:27.753 --> 14:42.208
[SPEAKER_00]: He claimed that an interview was done of this carball witness in 2017 and she stated she saw a man wearing a blue colored jacket and was muddy and bloody.
14:44.298 --> 14:49.099
[SPEAKER_00]: Carball did not describe the man as bloody, only muddy.
14:49.139 --> 14:52.975
[SPEAKER_00]: She said he was wearing a tan jacket.
14:53.090 --> 15:00.343
[SPEAKER_01]: Now Allen said that he was never wearing a blue car heart and his wife said Allen had purchased his current car heart a couple of years earlier.
15:00.884 --> 15:07.115
[SPEAKER_01]: Detectively it falsely stated that Allen said he was wearing a black or blue car heart with a hood and a head covering.
15:07.797 --> 15:16.853
[SPEAKER_01]: Allen told investigators that he did not know what he was wearing and it could have been anything from a car heart to a sweatshirt and that he kept his gold cap in his jacket.
15:16.833 --> 15:24.703
[SPEAKER_01]: Although Allen's wife said he had a blue car already in 2022, Liggit left out that she said Allen purchased the coat just a couple of years ago.
15:24.743 --> 15:28.848
[SPEAKER_01]: The girls were killed in 2017 and this was 2022.
15:30.390 --> 15:40.123
[SPEAKER_00]: So after all the information that Liggit proposed to the court and the
15:40.627 --> 15:54.726
[SPEAKER_00]: law enforcement seized from Allen's home multiple items, including a six-soyer gun, knives, casings, and the car heart type jacket with a white and yellow patch on the front pocket.
15:55.507 --> 15:59.192
[SPEAKER_00]: These items featured prominently during Allen's trial.
15:59.552 --> 16:05.520
[SPEAKER_01]: Allen denies that the bullet is his that the bridge guy that he was bridge guy or had anything to do with the murders.
16:05.905 --> 16:12.594
[SPEAKER_01]: At the scene, officers found an unspent, unfired 40 caliber smithin' west and cartridge near Libby's right ankle.
16:13.596 --> 16:22.968
[SPEAKER_01]: When ISP analyst Melissa Oberg, Cycle 6 cartridges through Allen's gun, she did not find any marks that matched the marks on the Cycle's round.
16:23.329 --> 16:29.297
[SPEAKER_01]: At the scene, thus she could not establish a link between Allen's gun and the unspent round at the scene.
16:30.087 --> 16:32.830
[SPEAKER_01]: Oberg then fired four cartridges from Allen's gun.
16:33.270 --> 16:45.442
[SPEAKER_01]: She compared the markings on these spint cartridges to the markings on the unspint cartridge at the scene, then she concluded that Allen's gun was the source of some of the markings on the unspint cartridge at the murder scene.
16:46.003 --> 16:58.255
[SPEAKER_01]: And there's a side note that Bridgeguys' coat did not have a patch like the ones that they seized from Allen's home.
16:58.606 --> 17:03.431
[SPEAKER_00]: law enforcement interrogated Allen again for about an hour and a half.
17:03.912 --> 17:09.398
[SPEAKER_00]: Detective Holman accused Allen of killing Abby and Libby or at least being involved.
17:10.199 --> 17:15.504
[SPEAKER_00]: Allen explained the very day the police asked anyone on the trail to come forward.
17:16.145 --> 17:17.547
[SPEAKER_00]: That is what he did.
17:17.567 --> 17:23.533
[SPEAKER_00]: I went for a walk on the trail and I went home and I did not murder too little girls.
17:24.188 --> 17:33.800
[SPEAKER_00]: Detective Homan repeatedly confronted Allen with Oberg's conclusion that marks on the caseings at the scene, matched his gun.
17:34.461 --> 17:48.238
[SPEAKER_00]: Each time Allen denied that the bullet at the scene was found from his gun, Homan even claimed the methodology was scientific and like fingerprints.
17:49.045 --> 18:02.080
[SPEAKER_00]: Exhausted and frustrated by detective Holman's relentless accusations that he murdered Abby and Libby, Alan consistently said he could not tell them what happened to the girls because he did not know.
18:02.100 --> 18:06.665
[SPEAKER_00]: He did not know how that round got between the girls or how they died.
18:07.045 --> 18:11.070
[SPEAKER_00]: He infatitated, I did not murder two little girls.
18:11.506 --> 18:19.677
[SPEAKER_01]: Despite Detective Homan's lying about experts identifying Alan and his voice on the video, Alan continued to deny he was bridge guy.
18:20.257 --> 18:28.027
[SPEAKER_01]: Detective Homan tried a different lie saying, five witnesses saw Alan with Libby and Abby with Anne A Gun.
18:28.608 --> 18:35.076
[SPEAKER_01]: Again, Alan said, quote, it did not happen and quote, I don't care how stressed out I get.
18:35.257 --> 18:38.661
[SPEAKER_01]: I am not going to admit something that I had nothing to do with.
18:38.641 --> 18:44.670
[SPEAKER_01]: Detective Home had tried to use Allen's depression against him, claiming it was because he killed two little girls.
18:45.130 --> 18:46.072
[SPEAKER_01]: That did not work.
18:46.713 --> 18:50.638
[SPEAKER_01]: Detective Home and even used Allen's wife as an interrogation tool.
18:51.239 --> 18:57.548
[SPEAKER_01]: While Allen was being interrogated, ISP told her that the bullet at the scene Master has been's gun.
18:58.129 --> 19:02.455
[SPEAKER_01]: When they brought her into sea Allen, he hugged her and said it's going to be alright.
19:03.025 --> 19:16.141
[SPEAKER_01]: While left alone together, she asked how his bullet got at the scene and how he repeated what he told detective home and, quote, I am not going to say something I did not do and I can't explain something I don't understand.
19:16.841 --> 19:23.650
[SPEAKER_01]: He told her a quote, I know that no bullet from my gun was connected with a murder in any way shape or form.
19:24.350 --> 19:29.877
[SPEAKER_01]: Indiana State Police lied to Allen's wife, too, telling her that a witness identified Allen.
19:29.857 --> 19:36.626
[SPEAKER_01]: Allen assured her they are not going to get away with this and told her I am sorry you are having too hurt.
19:37.067 --> 19:39.250
[SPEAKER_01]: I am sorry that I am having to go through it.
19:41.513 --> 19:52.168
[SPEAKER_00]: Just a few days after 50-year-old Allen was arrested for the first time in his life, he was sent to Indiana Department of Corrections as a safe keeper.
19:53.482 --> 20:02.296
[SPEAKER_00]: Indiana DOC transferred him to the Westville Correctional Unit and Maximum Security Segregation Unit for the worst of the worst.
20:03.599 --> 20:07.926
[SPEAKER_00]: The movies refer to it as the whole, used mostly to punish.
20:09.148 --> 20:18.443
[SPEAKER_00]: Alan was the first safe keeper in any DOC employees' memory to be placed in Westville Correctional.
20:19.688 --> 20:24.913
[SPEAKER_00]: Pre-trial sake keepers with mental health issues are usually placed in a mental health unit.
20:26.555 --> 20:35.504
[SPEAKER_00]: DOC, New Allen, had major depressive disorder, and was hospitalized in 2019 for suicide ideation.
20:36.465 --> 20:46.135
[SPEAKER_00]: He received a D mental health code, the second most severe, enticing him to one out of cell psychology visit each week.
20:46.874 --> 20:54.843
[SPEAKER_00]: During the visits, Allen was shackled and confined in a three by three-foot cage separated from the psychologist.
20:56.265 --> 21:01.331
[SPEAKER_00]: Allen had no face-to-face interaction unless shackled or separated by bars.
21:02.152 --> 21:09.180
[SPEAKER_00]: Outside his cell, he was restrained with leg arms, handcuffs, and a belly chain on a lead.
21:10.501 --> 21:16.408
[SPEAKER_00]: Other Westfield inmates in general population lived in dorms,
21:16.625 --> 21:20.309
[SPEAKER_00]: Eight together, watch TV, and move around more freely.
21:21.550 --> 21:26.335
[SPEAKER_00]: Alan was placed in a strip cell, stripped of everything but the bare necessities.
21:27.876 --> 21:38.707
[SPEAKER_00]: Alan cell was eight by 12 with a camera, a mattress, that was on a concrete slab with a bug in festation.
21:39.347 --> 21:45.113
[SPEAKER_00]: His only view was a narrow window facing a razor wire fence.
21:45.515 --> 21:47.898
[SPEAKER_00]: He had a loan on the floor or on his bed.
21:47.938 --> 21:50.561
[SPEAKER_01]: That'd make anybody crazy.
21:51.542 --> 22:14.627
[SPEAKER_00]: Allen was recorded 24-7 with a suicide companion outside his cell door writing down his statements and behavior and guards with video cameras filming his showers and his movements outside the cell, also attorney meetings.
22:15.232 --> 22:26.170
[SPEAKER_00]: depression and even caused psychosis, and their policy restricts the time inmates with serious mental illness can stay in solitary confinement to 30 days.
22:27.011 --> 22:36.987
[SPEAKER_00]: But DOC did not apply that policy to Allen, and he remained in the most secure solitary cell in Westville, Correctional Unit for 13 months.
22:37.405 --> 22:47.018
[SPEAKER_01]: When Richard Allen arrived at the prison in November of 2022, Allen appeared like a deer in the headlights, but was coherent, quiet, and weighed 180 pounds.
22:47.659 --> 22:53.747
[SPEAKER_01]: By April of 2023, he weighed 135 pounds, with psychotic and gravely disabled.
22:54.488 --> 23:00.235
[SPEAKER_01]: Early in custody Allen maintained innocence and believed solitary was meant to tear him down.
23:00.876 --> 23:06.163
[SPEAKER_01]: He told the psychologist, Dr. Wala, he felt like a quote broken man after two weeks.
23:06.582 --> 23:09.205
[SPEAKER_01]: Allen described a quiet, normal life previously.
23:09.865 --> 23:12.168
[SPEAKER_01]: Allen was extremely devoted to his wife.
23:13.069 --> 23:22.459
[SPEAKER_01]: On November 14th, 2022, he emotionally told her, if this becomes too much for you, call the detectives and I will tell them whatever they want to know.
23:23.280 --> 23:30.227
[SPEAKER_01]: By January 26th of 2023, Allen was expressing paranoia, in late March and early April,
23:30.511 --> 23:36.781
[SPEAKER_01]: Around the time Allen received his discovery and met with his attorneys, Allen's behavior suddenly worsened.
23:37.262 --> 23:39.105
[SPEAKER_01]: Guard thought he was quote-acting up.
23:39.566 --> 23:48.521
[SPEAKER_01]: He refused meals, became non-sensical, spoke of old bear claw, hypnotizing him, and acted like he was from mid-eval times.
23:49.182 --> 23:53.970
[SPEAKER_01]: He ripped legal mail, washed his face in the toilet, and drank toilet water.
23:54.912 --> 24:00.888
[SPEAKER_01]: He stuck a sport in his genitalia and covered himself in feces, spit and vomit.
24:01.670 --> 24:11.436
[SPEAKER_01]: Video from the early April showed Alan Frighten, extremely thin, bleeding, shaking, contorting and interacting with non-existent stimuli.
24:12.648 --> 24:17.114
[SPEAKER_01]: He was pacing back and forth, eating as Bible, and hitting his head on the cell door.
24:17.895 --> 24:30.230
[SPEAKER_01]: On a video from April 12, he was naked while he flapped his hands, punched in the air, counted imaginary objects, pulled feces from his anus, and smeared it into food, and marched in place.
24:31.852 --> 24:42.385
[SPEAKER_00]: On April 14, the DOC ordered involuntary medication and found him gravely disabled.
24:42.871 --> 24:46.797
[SPEAKER_00]: He had lost an abnormal amount of weight and was not sleeping.
24:47.479 --> 24:49.682
[SPEAKER_00]: Haledaw produced minimal improvement.
24:50.143 --> 25:04.707
[SPEAKER_00]: He continued to speak in loose associations about things like nuclear war, poisoning, dying, losing reality, cryogenic eyeballs, and not remembering confessions he had already given.
25:04.747 --> 25:07.832
[SPEAKER_00]: He also continued to play with his feces.
25:08.217 --> 25:15.168
[SPEAKER_00]: After letting Allen sit in his feces for two hours on April 23, he was removed from his cell and given a shower.
25:16.550 --> 25:30.732
[SPEAKER_00]: Allen's symptoms continued through May, a May-third Dr. Wala diagnosed Allen with a brief psychotic disorder, noting he had disorganized speech and behavior, but no delusions or hallucinations.
25:31.167 --> 25:34.694
[SPEAKER_00]: On May 25, his shot was still not working.
25:35.275 --> 25:41.026
[SPEAKER_00]: Alan Pace for two hours and banged the back and front of his head on a metal door for about an hour.
25:41.086 --> 25:48.280
[SPEAKER_00]: Despite his self-injury and visible Gooseg on his head, no one checked on him.
25:48.320 --> 25:53.310
[SPEAKER_00]: The next day, Alan had two black eyes from banging his head.
25:53.999 --> 26:02.974
[SPEAKER_00]: And on June 5th, DOC was administered another 30-day involuntary hallidaw injection.
26:03.615 --> 26:08.803
[SPEAKER_00]: On June 20th, 2023, Allen was catatonic and extremely skinny.
26:09.544 --> 26:19.821
[SPEAKER_00]: Garg's carrying carried him to the infirmary, strapped in a chair, after his visit, he
26:20.392 --> 26:33.768
[SPEAKER_00]: That same day, Dr. Martin claimed Allen was coherent, oriented, and not psychotic, and had been free of psychosis for seven weeks, returning to baseline on May 2nd.
26:34.369 --> 26:41.558
[SPEAKER_01]: Allen confessed to his family over the phone, April 3rd, May 10th, May 17th, June 5th, and June 11th.
26:42.099 --> 26:44.281
[SPEAKER_01]: On April 30th, he told his wife, I did it.
26:44.682 --> 26:49.808
[SPEAKER_01]: I killed Abby and Libby, later
26:50.328 --> 26:54.792
[SPEAKER_01]: On May 17, 2023, Allen insisted to his mother he killed the girls.
26:55.873 --> 27:01.638
[SPEAKER_01]: The next day on May 18, Allen banged his head against the cell door to the point where he had a gash.
27:02.479 --> 27:06.242
[SPEAKER_01]: Allen told his wife he did it, but that he has lost his mind.
27:06.703 --> 27:08.324
[SPEAKER_01]: He is probably going to kill himself.
27:08.925 --> 27:12.568
[SPEAKER_01]: Feels like he is already in hell and does not understand what is happening.
27:13.869 --> 27:20.115
[SPEAKER_00]: From April through June, guards repeatedly heard Allen confess, I killed Abby and
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[SPEAKER_00]: Admist his bizarre behavior.
27:23.390 --> 27:28.676
[SPEAKER_00]: His statements occurred while he smeared feces, rolled in it, drink toilet water.
27:29.157 --> 27:39.709
[SPEAKER_00]: Shout it at his shadow, saying masturbated, paced, saluted, as nonsense a cool question's hit his head and even asked if he was dead.
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[SPEAKER_00]: On April 29th, Alan made a more specific statement to a guard, claiming he killed two girls in Delphi
27:51.095 --> 27:53.922
[SPEAKER_00]: from and left in the trash at CVS.
27:54.804 --> 27:58.233
[SPEAKER_00]: He was going to rape them, but he panicked and killed them.
27:59.095 --> 28:00.378
[SPEAKER_00]: He said they were screaming.
28:01.100 --> 28:04.007
[SPEAKER_00]: Just the day before, he was covered in his feces.
28:04.477 --> 28:10.806
[SPEAKER_01]: this is gonna be a two-parter because the brief is pretty long so we're just basically gonna discuss this for a minute.
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[SPEAKER_01]: I tell you what it took a couple of times for us to get through that script because that's some pretty rough shit man.
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[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, I don't know.
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[SPEAKER_01]: I saw Alan's interview, and it's first interview.
28:23.745 --> 28:25.367
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I'll have seen both of them.
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[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, you have.
28:26.008 --> 28:33.859
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, but I mean, you know, everybody has in the opinion man, but it just didn't seem to
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[SPEAKER_01]: to do that shit.
28:35.881 --> 28:40.166
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, does all the stuff we read sound like a CVS manager?
28:40.186 --> 28:43.549
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, the dude was smart and poop on his self and stuff.
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[SPEAKER_01]: That's pretty messed up.
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[SPEAKER_00]: After a 13 months of being locked up in solitary confinement, but you know what?
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[SPEAKER_00]: Here's how everybody's looking at it like a two-sided coin.
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[SPEAKER_00]: You know, if he's innocent, all this is horrible, which it is.
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[SPEAKER_00]: It absolutely is if he's innocent.
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[SPEAKER_00]: But if he's guilty, I mean, anybody that murders two girls like that, that's the kind of stuff they deserve.
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[SPEAKER_00]: You know what I mean?
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[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, not deserve, but that's what their life needs to consist of, just a little sale with them getting their food slid to him.
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[SPEAKER_00]: through a thing.
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[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, I even I think that's too good for somebody who murders two little girls.
29:29.783 --> 29:31.185
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, I agree 100%.
29:31.245 --> 29:38.014
[SPEAKER_01]: And I tell you what, I've known some people in interviews and people that's been in Westfield, prison, and it's a fucking horrible place.
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[SPEAKER_01]: And for them to restrict people to be in the solitary confinement that he was for only 30 days at a time.
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[SPEAKER_01]: And he was in there for 13 months.
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[SPEAKER_01]: I mean,
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[SPEAKER_01]: Hell, I'd probably be rubbing shit on myself.
29:54.086 --> 29:57.217
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't know, that's pretty fucked up.
29:57.639 --> 30:03.178
[SPEAKER_01]: And the reason I say that about his interview is because just his reaction when they said,
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[SPEAKER_01]: Oh yeah, Richard this bullet did come from your gun and he laughed.
30:09.060 --> 30:18.772
[SPEAKER_01]: He was like, no, if no, it fucking didn't like he literally laughed at him like and it wasn't a laugh like he was fake and it was a laugh like Like you're gonna be like you're fool it.
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[SPEAKER_01]: You're fool a shit dude.
30:19.793 --> 30:28.423
[SPEAKER_01]: You're lying to me to try to get me to confess like cops do Some you know most cops Right goodness
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[SPEAKER_01]: And you know, I have some feelings about how they match that bullet to the gun, too.
30:35.696 --> 30:55.221
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, if those ejection marks are so, you know, forensically true, then why did she eject six shells out of it, and could not get, yeah, unspit shells, which is like the shell that they found an unspit round means it was not fired.
30:55.201 --> 31:05.174
[SPEAKER_01]: She ejected six of those out of his pistol and could not get them to match the one at the crime scene, but then she fired four rounds and she matched.
31:05.514 --> 31:08.598
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm not exactly sure how many she said she matched maybe one or two.
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[SPEAKER_01]: I'm not sure.
31:09.339 --> 31:12.483
[SPEAKER_01]: Don't quote me on how many they matched after it was fired.
31:13.945 --> 31:23.858
[SPEAKER_01]: But if you've ever ejected bullets out of a semi-automatic pistol, sometimes it doesn't leave any marks and they're talking about
31:24.682 --> 31:28.245
[SPEAKER_01]: just the marks that the little two little rods fly out.
31:29.086 --> 31:42.459
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, I don't think the dude, I don't know how many times he shot his gun, but then six hours, they make them, all the parts, especially the ones that he jacked, they're all made, I mean, damn near identical.
31:42.860 --> 31:44.101
[SPEAKER_01]: Damn near identical.
31:44.561 --> 31:45.702
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't know where they go ahead.
31:46.003 --> 31:53.490
[SPEAKER_00]: What do you think the odds are of that being a true matching, being his guy?
31:54.179 --> 31:56.322
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't trust the science of that myself.
31:57.203 --> 31:58.804
[SPEAKER_00]: I looked up some science on that.
31:59.045 --> 31:59.305
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
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[SPEAKER_00]: So I looked up, you know, like this scenario.
32:03.710 --> 32:14.883
[SPEAKER_00]: And what I learned is that the scenario described was referred to the forensic ballistic testing in the Delphi murders.
32:14.903 --> 32:24.034
[SPEAKER_00]: The firearms examiner tested Allen six-soyer by cycling six-imper, unfired rounds,
32:24.588 --> 32:43.833
[SPEAKER_00]: Now black box studies on firearm tool mark identification estimate false positive rates where an examiner incorrectly identifies a match between items from different guns at approximately 0.9% to 1%.
32:44.293 --> 32:54.426
[SPEAKER_00]: However, the studies primary involve comparisons between
32:54.845 --> 32:56.808
[SPEAKER_00]: as in the case.
32:57.409 --> 33:08.648
[SPEAKER_00]: Critics, including the defense expert, argued that comparing fired casings to an unbired one, introduces additional uncertainty, potentially increasing the risk of error.
33:10.932 --> 33:18.625
[SPEAKER_01]: So, giving me the percentage of the, so the percentage of accuracy was the, the point nine to one percent.
33:20.410 --> 33:24.938
[SPEAKER_00]: That's like 9% to 1.
33:25.639 --> 33:26.400
[SPEAKER_00]: That's still.
33:26.500 --> 33:27.823
[SPEAKER_01]: That's, that's come on.
33:27.843 --> 33:29.445
[SPEAKER_01]: They shouldn't be able to use that in court.
33:29.465 --> 33:45.793
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, you would think that, I mean, I mean, I've seen the, the forensics when they use it on a fire pin, because the firing pins, they'll all wear it a little bit different, because people shoot different rounds out of their, out of their guns, and
33:45.773 --> 33:53.145
[SPEAKER_01]: I've also seen the forensic testing where they use the rifling of the barrels, and I get that, even.
33:53.767 --> 34:02.782
[SPEAKER_01]: But an ejected shell, and then you eject six out of it, and none of them match, it's grasping its draws at best for me.
34:02.802 --> 34:06.448
[SPEAKER_01]: And you know, Richard Allen would not even be on the radar.
34:06.428 --> 34:09.913
[SPEAKER_01]: if he had to voluntarily win in there to try to help him.
34:10.053 --> 34:16.503
[SPEAKER_01]: Maybe I saw something that could help you guys find the killer to these two little girls.
34:17.564 --> 34:29.181
[SPEAKER_00]: Now, so, well, Dr. Eric Warren said that firing changes in the middle properties of the casing, making direct comparisons unreliable.
34:30.623 --> 34:35.170
[SPEAKER_01]: So, yeah, I agree with that.
34:35.858 --> 34:59.908
[SPEAKER_00]: and then legal analyst and critics noted that this deviate the protocol that she used deviates from standard protocols and there are no validated studies specifically supporting conclusion identifications between fire tested casings and unbuyred evidence cartridges in this manner.
35:00.698 --> 35:02.461
[SPEAKER_01]: see I just don't trust that shit.
35:02.822 --> 35:23.820
[SPEAKER_01]: I just don't it's wild and to be locked up in solitary confinement for 13 months and you know if the other prisoners in there I mean we all know what they do to rapist murderers anybody that hurts little kids they just they torture them and by the time you're sent to Westville you're
35:24.340 --> 35:51.630
[SPEAKER_01]: adjudicated guilty normally that it was in pre-trial people there so exactly he was guilty the moment he walked in there to everybody there and and also it wasn't like he was there by his self where he could think on his own time they had a what about the quote unquote suicide buddies that they had sitting there oh yeah suicide companions who the companion were they were they in may the prisoners
35:51.610 --> 35:55.817
[SPEAKER_00]: So they're letting other prisoners just watch this dude and write down whatever they want.
35:55.917 --> 35:56.758
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, he said this.
35:56.818 --> 35:57.419
[SPEAKER_00]: He said this.
35:57.480 --> 35:58.061
[SPEAKER_00]: Exactly.
35:58.121 --> 35:58.842
[SPEAKER_01]: Exactly.
35:59.543 --> 36:01.646
[SPEAKER_01]: And that you know that I mean not all of them.
36:01.706 --> 36:10.240
[SPEAKER_01]: Some of them may have been good Christians or whatever, but in my mind, you know, I'm thinking there's probably sitting there saying, you little bitch, you killed him.
36:10.260 --> 36:11.863
[SPEAKER_01]: Girls, you deserve to die.
36:11.843 --> 36:14.986
[SPEAKER_01]: You got the psychiatrist doping you up and telling him you did it.
36:15.707 --> 36:19.471
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, you got, it's just, it's, it's, it's a horrible fucking deal.
36:19.992 --> 36:24.637
[SPEAKER_01]: I tell you, man, if the dude did it, I'd rub shit on him myself, you know?
36:24.657 --> 36:29.923
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm saying, but, uh, I just, I just don't know with this one.
36:30.263 --> 36:35.910
[SPEAKER_01]: I, I get a pretty good read on people, man, and I just, I'm, I'm having a hard time buying the case.
36:37.011 --> 36:40.635
[SPEAKER_01]: The confessions is what ultimately got him, but we're going to get into that too later.
36:41.189 --> 36:52.043
[SPEAKER_00]: I often wondered, you know, whenever they interviewed you and then they marked it clear in the tips, file or folder, it said it got misfiled.
36:52.503 --> 36:58.030
[SPEAKER_00]: But if it was filed as cleared, then what should it have been filed under?
36:58.070 --> 37:01.054
[SPEAKER_00]: If not cleared, why would you go back and look at cleared?
37:01.388 --> 37:05.793
[SPEAKER_01]: Right, well, they said a clerk, I pretty sure found the error.
37:05.893 --> 37:09.256
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, how would you know if it was an error if it just was marked clear?
37:09.457 --> 37:09.717
[SPEAKER_01]: Right.
37:09.937 --> 37:10.418
[SPEAKER_01]: Exactly.
37:10.458 --> 37:11.359
[SPEAKER_00]: Like how would you know?
37:11.679 --> 37:12.480
[SPEAKER_01]: That's a good point.
37:15.043 --> 37:21.069
[SPEAKER_00]: But you know, I see why the jury did vote him guilty.
37:21.129 --> 37:24.032
[SPEAKER_00]: They just couldn't overcome them confessions.
37:24.312 --> 37:26.755
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, to some people, it's just,
37:27.055 --> 37:39.229
[SPEAKER_00]: you can't even wrap your mind around admitting to something that you didn't do especially murder two little girls and that just coming out of somebody's mouth is absolutely wild to them.
37:39.269 --> 37:43.354
[SPEAKER_00]: And he said it so many times he did.
37:43.374 --> 37:50.182
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, I ate it minute, but I don't most swayed me.
37:50.202 --> 37:51.023
[SPEAKER_01]: I know.
37:51.323 --> 37:51.603
[SPEAKER_01]: I know.
37:51.844 --> 37:52.885
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm undecided.
37:52.925 --> 37:54.767
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm undecided too, but
37:55.220 --> 38:07.902
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't think as a CBS manager that he went home every night and rubbed poop on himself and jacked off and shouted at his shadows and looked out of the toilet like a dog either.
38:08.463 --> 38:14.474
[SPEAKER_01]: So all of his behavior was, was, well that was months out of the ordinary.
38:14.815 --> 38:18.100
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, the confessions were quite a ways into the confinement, too.
38:18.661 --> 38:20.164
[SPEAKER_01]: And it's funny how they said,
38:20.600 --> 38:40.321
[SPEAKER_01]: six months in, I think that's quite a long ways into a solitary confinement, and it was also, I thought that it was weird that one day Allen was drooling on himself and rubbing shit all over itself, and the next day the psychiatrist marked him down as normal.
38:42.864 --> 38:46.928
[SPEAKER_00]: So, I mean, yeah, it's like the records aren't matching.
38:47.313 --> 38:51.259
[SPEAKER_01]: No, and I tell you what, you give somebody enough shots of how with all in their ass.
38:51.299 --> 38:52.722
[SPEAKER_01]: They're going to die.
38:52.862 --> 38:54.404
[SPEAKER_01]: They don't know what the fuck they're saying.
38:54.424 --> 38:56.327
[SPEAKER_01]: They're just saying whatever, you know.
38:57.529 --> 39:00.674
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't know, man, I don't see it on this one.
39:01.095 --> 39:02.156
[SPEAKER_01]: And I feel guilty.
39:02.196 --> 39:11.331
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm torn because I would feel like a piece of shit if he really did do it because I am all for justice for having Libby 100%.
39:11.852 --> 39:13.995
[SPEAKER_01]: It was a horrific crime.
39:14.701 --> 39:18.505
[SPEAKER_01]: if he did it then all the stuff is validated in my opinion.
39:19.046 --> 39:40.371
[SPEAKER_00]: But you know there was a lot of talk along the way that of evidence that people didn't get to see and in this brief it lays out a lot of information that you know were maybe rumors here and there, but now they've put it in this brief to go to the appellate court and I don't think they'd be putting it in that brief if it didn't hold any type of weight.
39:40.908 --> 39:41.450
[SPEAKER_01]: I agree.
39:41.571 --> 39:46.610
[SPEAKER_01]: I think at least he needs to be allowed another trial.
39:46.771 --> 39:52.352
[SPEAKER_01]: I know, man, there's going to be people out there that say, why put the family through this again.
39:52.923 --> 40:07.873
[SPEAKER_01]: But there's enough people that doubt, and there's enough doubt in my mind, and the police jacked this thing up from the gate, lying to get the search warrant, that should be fruits from a poisonous tree, as they call it, isn't it?
40:08.174 --> 40:09.356
[SPEAKER_00]: I think so, like that.
40:10.138 --> 40:13.665
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, but it's just, I don't know, it's,
40:15.164 --> 40:19.731
[SPEAKER_01]: If y'all listen to this and follow us on Facebook, let us know what you think about the Richard on case.
40:19.751 --> 40:32.211
[SPEAKER_01]: We're going to put a post about this and I cannot wait to get into the second part of this episode because it gets really good what needs to be re-educated in my eyes.
40:33.192 --> 40:34.354
[SPEAKER_00]: Absolutely.
40:34.334 --> 40:46.874
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, that does wrap up part one of the Richard Allen appeal case, and if you support what we do, go to www.patreon.com forward slash 69 South.
40:46.894 --> 40:50.720
[SPEAKER_01]: Help us keep the lights on the studio until then have a wonderful day.
40:51.521 --> 40:52.022
[SPEAKER_01]: Good evening.
