Oct. 3, 2024

Secrets in the Snow: John OKeefe Murdered Part 2

Uncover the unspoken truths behind the chilling mystery of the Karen Reed case as we navigate the labyrinth of "Secrets in the Snow" on the 69 South Podcast. What really happened during the final interactions between Karen Reed and Officer John O'Keefe before his tragic disappearance? Through meticulous examination of their text exchanges, we shed light on the emotional turmoil and hidden tensions that underscored their relationship. Prepare to be captivated by insights drawn from court documents and testimonies, as co-host Julie leads an investigation that promises to challenge preconceived notions.

Our discussion takes you into the heart of Karen and John's fraught relationship, where personal and familial challenges loom large. External pressures, like a looming blizzard, and internal conflicts, such as disagreements over time spent together, compound the stress. We navigate Karen's journey of frustration and her quest for support amid parenting and household management struggles. This episode spotlights the human elements entangled in their story, offering a window into the complexities of relationships strained by adversity and uncertainty.

As the narrative unfolds, we confront the unsettling chaos surrounding John O'Keefe's death, from the mishandled crime scene to Karen's distress on that fateful night. With anticipation building, we tease explosive revelations in our upcoming exploration of Karen's exchanges with Brian Higgins. These insights promise to alter perceptions and provoke thought. Stay with us as we continue to unravel new dimensions of this gripping case, ensuring an intriguing and thought-provoking experience for our listeners.

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Disclaimer: All defendants are INNOCENT UNTIL PROVEN GUILTY in a court of law. All facts are alleged until a conviction!

00:23 - Secrets in the Snow

10:10 - Communication Breakdown and Repair

25:32 - Unanswered Questions at Crime Scene

38:27 - Revealing Text Messages and Secrets

WEBVTT

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Welcome everyone to podcast 69 south, where we discuss and discuss true crime, cold cases, current events and hot topics, along with our state of society today.

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This is your trigger warning.

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Our podcast content is produced for adult listeners, 18 years of age and older.

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We discuss situations that may be offensive and triggering to some listeners.

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Sit back, relax and enjoy.

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Welcome back to 69 South Podcast.

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We hope you had a good time since the last time.

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This is going to be part two of Secrets in the Snow, the Karen Reed story.

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This is our sixth episode and we're glad to have you back.

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With me is my co-host, julie.

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She's the main investigator on this case because she's been digging into it for three weeks now.

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This episode we are going to dig into some really, really red tape of the case and you guys are going to see exactly why we're investigating this.

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Also, all of our information is not from just watching other podcasts.

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It's from us doing our due diligence and reading court transcripts, memorandums, everything from the prosecution and defense sides that is out, and we've came to all of our own conclusions and I think we've uncovered some stuff that we haven't heard anybody else talk about.

00:02:05.737 --> 00:02:32.793
So I'm excited to get into this and right now we are going to read John O'Keefe's text messages with Miss Karen Reed on the day prior to when he went missing and up until that morning, so you can see the dynamics of the relationship.

00:02:34.741 --> 00:02:46.951
And, like Julie said, every bit of this information has come from us investigating the court case, or sworn testimonies or any security footage or just anything.

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It's real.

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We haven't, we're not going to broadcast any bullshit and our opinions are not going to be based on bullshit.

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Also, we do all our own everything.

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We're our own writers, producers, so this is fun for us, but we're new to it and we're learning and it's going to be great.

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So, like Julie said, we're going to take you back to the morning of the day that this tragedy happened.

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So we're going to go through Karen Reed and John O'Keefe's text messages to and from each other and that'll give you a kind of a feeling on how they were feeling and what they were going through.

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It's going to start off that day.

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So, without any further delay, I'm going to be reading the text messages from John O'Keefe and Julie's going to be reading the text messages to John O'Keefe from Karen Reed messages to John O'Keefe from Karen Reed.

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Now, these messages start on January 28th of 2022, around 9 30 in the morning, so let's get into it.

00:03:54.953 --> 00:04:03.734
I'm going to be reading Karen and Chop's going to be reading John, you have really hurt me this time.

00:04:03.734 --> 00:04:05.221
You have really hurt me.

00:04:05.241 --> 00:04:05.741
This time Again.

00:04:05.741 --> 00:04:07.102
This is from John DeCaron.

00:04:07.102 --> 00:04:08.163
I'm sorry.

00:04:08.163 --> 00:04:10.645
This has been an issue with me for eight years.

00:04:10.645 --> 00:04:18.029
It physically hurts me to see everyone else in their life do things for them and I'm always forced, always the bad guy.

00:04:19.370 --> 00:04:21.872
I am not the same as everyone else.

00:04:21.872 --> 00:04:27.857
Most of the time, I try to do what is healthy and smart for them.

00:04:27.857 --> 00:04:37.242
More importantly, I try to support you and what you need.

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You just lashed out at me and said terrible things.

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I don't know how you've gotten to this point with me when I'm just trying my hardest.

00:04:42.730 --> 00:04:47.276
You made your point and continue to beat me down.

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I have a lot going on too Physically.

00:04:50.704 --> 00:04:56.855
I am falling apart and trying to get answers and help.

00:04:56.855 --> 00:04:59.843
I am just your girlfriend.

00:04:59.843 --> 00:05:02.125
I am not a perfect parent.

00:05:02.125 --> 00:05:07.274
I am trying very hard and sometimes treat them nothing like I used to.

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I know I'm sorry for lashing out.

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I'm just hurting and struggling every day with them.

00:05:13.110 --> 00:05:18.011
I always feel like I'm failing at this parent thing.

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I wasn't built for this.

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Kaylee isn't perfect, but everything wonderful about her is because of you.

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And the next one from him was redacted, so we'll go back to you.

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It's time.

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Sorry, it's true, I know she's her mother's daughter, but she wouldn't be so bright and successful if she lived with anyone else.

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Wow, kristen just sent you two back-to-back messages to not lose your faith in the kids or in yourself.

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Another message from John to Karen that was redacted, so we'll go back to you.

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No life can pick you up sometimes.

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So we'll go back to you.

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No life can pick you up sometimes.

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Please be happy with them and put away your frustrations for the rest of the day and be so proud of yourself.

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Jj.

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That bothers me more than anything.

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Should have spent Peg's or Sarah's W-2s.

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We are all equal guardians.

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Maybe you can call someone.

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Like who?

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What time are you coming here?

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Another redacted one, so back to you.

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I don't know what time.

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Feel kind of out of it Just trying to clear my head.

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Another one from John to Karen.

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All it says is okay, sure, but it really stung.

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Especially when I've been trying pretty hard lately, I feel like a loser turning around and just coming back over there after everything you said, not sure what else you want me to do.

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I am sorry, I was out of line.

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If you prefer to stay home, I totally get it.

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Things in my own life have been difficult too, you know.

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I know, tell me if you are interested in someone else.

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Can't think of any other reason you've been like this.

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Nope, these haven't been great between us for a while.

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Ever consider that Kids are here not in the mood to talk.

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So you're not into it anymore.

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That's fine, but I don't want to keep trying and keep you treating me like this.

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I'm trying to hug and kiss you this morning and you whack me in the face with a pillow Last night.

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You're basically like yeah, what about when we talk about the future?

00:08:11.627 --> 00:08:16.329
So why don't you just admit you're not into it so much anymore?

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That's not how it went down, but okay.

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Can you please admit your head is out of the game with us.

00:08:24.531 --> 00:08:26.293
Sick of always arguing and fighting.

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It's been weekly for several months now, so, yeah, I'm not so quick to jump back in to being lovey-dovey as you are apparently.

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Oh my God, stop calling.

00:08:38.798 --> 00:08:40.879
Then why would you start with me this morning?

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You're setting me up to fail.

00:08:45.163 --> 00:08:47.626
You start a number of fights from your end.

00:08:48.248 --> 00:08:52.075
I've explained it a few times already, not doing it again.

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So you're not into this anymore, not into fighting all the time, correct?

00:09:01.440 --> 00:09:05.432
If you tell me you're interested in someone else, you will never hear from me again.

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You can have all the space in the world.

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The next message from John to Karen was redacted, so back to you.

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Then stop starting with me.

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I am not answering, stop calling.

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Can you please answer after how you treated me earlier?

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Kaylee is right here.

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Answer.

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After how you treated me earlier, Kaylee is right here.

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You start a rager with me out of nowhere and then tell me you're sick of fighting with me, I'm going to grab a drink in a bit.

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Can you please answer?

00:09:44.019 --> 00:09:45.943
No, karen, not sure why you need to announce that you're grabbing a drink, but have fun Sing.

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If you want to meet me later, can you please call me?

00:09:49.812 --> 00:09:55.855
Have to take them to the doctor.

00:09:55.855 --> 00:09:56.438
He has practice.

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Yeah, five minutes.

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My father just walked in.

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Okay, can you please call me for two minutes?

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Not right now.

00:10:06.042 --> 00:10:09.051
I'm there when anyone else needs me.

00:10:09.051 --> 00:10:14.292
Yes, John, you gave me utter grief this morning.

00:10:14.292 --> 00:10:17.409
I'd like you to call me for a minute.

00:10:17.409 --> 00:10:38.695
I've been trying to get over the hump with this arguing and now you tell me you're not into things and you don't want to fight weakly and fly off the handle at Sam with me, like you're setting me up to fail.

00:10:38.695 --> 00:10:46.472
I've been dealing with my own personal crisis over things I have zero control over.

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I'd like to lean on you sometimes.

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Instead, I just hear everything I've done wrong.

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You seriously cannot pick up the phone for two seconds.

00:10:56.410 --> 00:11:00.451
Why don't you meet me at the hillside at 4.30, 5 o'clock?

00:11:02.041 --> 00:11:04.068
Another redacted one from John.

00:11:05.261 --> 00:11:06.745
Or whenever you get settled.

00:11:07.668 --> 00:11:11.485
Like I said, at doctor now, and he has practice until six.

00:11:11.485 --> 00:11:14.133
If you want to go start drinking, then go for it.

00:11:15.260 --> 00:11:17.907
I didn't know the times of his practice.

00:11:17.907 --> 00:11:24.748
I just want to give you space at the house without me there, so I'd rather meet you out than meet at the house.

00:11:26.171 --> 00:11:30.706
Well, yeah, well, now there's a 72-year-old taking up shop on my couch.

00:11:31.067 --> 00:11:32.070
Yeah, that too.

00:11:32.070 --> 00:11:33.913
Is he going to Collins?

00:11:34.279 --> 00:11:34.941
Not tonight.

00:11:37.424 --> 00:11:39.369
So do you plan on going out tonight?

00:11:39.609 --> 00:11:45.428
Karen, I don't know, you're like jonesing to drink, so just go.

00:11:46.541 --> 00:11:46.861
Okay.

00:11:46.861 --> 00:12:02.004
Well, after how this morning went down, I don't think I need to be back over there with you, and getting frustrated at how I am with the kids has nothing to do with drinking.

00:12:02.004 --> 00:12:13.340
I am paranoid now that everything I do with them is problematic, so I'd rather see you for a minute without kids around.

00:12:13.980 --> 00:12:14.702
What's your plan?

00:12:16.331 --> 00:12:17.173
Don't have one.

00:12:17.934 --> 00:12:18.596
Still at home.

00:12:20.020 --> 00:12:20.402
Yes.

00:12:21.572 --> 00:12:27.841
We just got home Waiting to see what Papa decides here, or else I have to get Patrick at six.

00:12:28.222 --> 00:12:28.562
Okay.

00:12:29.831 --> 00:12:31.678
So are you staying home or coming here?

00:12:33.150 --> 00:12:35.198
Waiting to see what you end up doing.

00:12:35.198 --> 00:12:38.274
I don't want to hang out at the house too much.

00:12:38.274 --> 00:12:50.503
Like I said, I think it's clear me around with the kids around is slowly killing our relationship, and our relationship is much more important to me.

00:12:51.870 --> 00:12:55.140
Well, there's a blizzard coming, so we'll be inside all weekend.

00:12:55.590 --> 00:12:57.337
It'll be over by noon tomorrow.

00:12:57.337 --> 00:13:05.631
Don't think so over by noon tomorrow.

00:13:05.631 --> 00:13:06.011
Don't think so.

00:13:06.011 --> 00:13:08.256
I don't want to keep having this constant conflict of the dynamic of the four of us.

00:13:08.256 --> 00:13:11.423
The harder I try, the more it kills our relationship as a couple.

00:13:11.423 --> 00:13:15.037
It feels like utter shit to be in this position.

00:13:15.037 --> 00:13:23.572
Rather, just meet you out for drinks when you figure out what your night looks like well, I have no idea what's going on.

00:13:23.731 --> 00:13:30.504
So do you want you want need to figure out what everyone else is doing?

00:13:30.504 --> 00:13:38.496
All I know is that madeline is coming over, no clue about patrick yet, or if papa was planning on hanging for a few more hours.

00:13:39.758 --> 00:13:47.826
Okay, well, when you know the story, and if you want me to come up, let me know.

00:13:48.826 --> 00:13:51.336
No, karen, you decide what you want to do.

00:13:53.072 --> 00:13:55.841
I know your heart isn't in this anymore.

00:13:55.841 --> 00:14:00.049
I've felt it for a while, and especially lately.

00:14:00.049 --> 00:14:05.582
I am willing to try more, but not if you're approaching the point of indifference.

00:14:05.582 --> 00:14:14.621
If you want me to come up and you can head out for a while, then say so when you know what your father is doing.

00:14:15.230 --> 00:14:17.278
So you come up and I head out.

00:14:17.278 --> 00:14:25.235
Really, I've told you already, I don't bounce back as quickly as you do after we have a battle.

00:14:26.171 --> 00:14:29.835
No, head out together or meet up.

00:14:30.331 --> 00:14:32.356
Gonna send Patrick to college tonight.

00:14:32.356 --> 00:14:35.499
They're planning they're picking him up around 7.

00:14:35.499 --> 00:14:39.356
Mike may hang too when brings Matt over.

00:14:39.356 --> 00:14:41.157
So why don't you just come over?

00:14:42.149 --> 00:14:46.020
Mike doesn't want to go out for a bit question mark.

00:14:46.020 --> 00:14:50.655
I would like to Been a shitty day from the jump.

00:14:51.138 --> 00:14:54.918
Probably I just got sober an hour ago.

00:14:57.511 --> 00:14:59.399
I'll let you hang with Mike for a few.

00:14:59.399 --> 00:15:01.716
Don't need to butt in.

00:15:01.716 --> 00:15:08.102
Text me if and when you think you may head out.

00:15:08.102 --> 00:15:16.182
Can you please send me Tim Zoll's contact info please?

00:15:16.991 --> 00:15:18.477
I already paid the last bill.

00:15:19.169 --> 00:15:24.739
You didn't have to do that, thanks, are you really not going to accept my friend request?

00:15:24.739 --> 00:15:25.360
I already paid the last bill.

00:15:25.379 --> 00:15:27.081
You didn't have to do that, thanks, are you really not going?

00:15:27.121 --> 00:15:27.722
to accept my friend request.

00:15:27.722 --> 00:15:28.083
On what?

00:15:28.083 --> 00:15:28.264
Facebook?

00:15:28.264 --> 00:15:30.267
Yeah, we have been going out for two years.

00:15:34.618 --> 00:15:35.301
I haven't gone on.

00:15:39.321 --> 00:15:40.466
You've defriended me.

00:15:40.466 --> 00:15:43.960
Over a year ago, I believe, carrie texted that they're headed out in a little bit.

00:15:44.711 --> 00:15:46.076
Okay, dot, dot dot.

00:15:46.770 --> 00:15:48.331
She's going to let me know where.

00:15:49.436 --> 00:15:51.277
So you're going to meet them.

00:15:54.110 --> 00:15:56.331
Just presenting it as an option.

00:15:56.331 --> 00:15:58.794
Wouldn't mind hanging out with them for a drink.

00:15:58.794 --> 00:16:01.394
Is Mike over?

00:16:01.836 --> 00:16:02.118
Yes.

00:16:03.551 --> 00:16:13.101
Sounds like you're good with getting together tonight, was hoping after this morning you'd be interested in smoothing things over with me.

00:16:14.671 --> 00:16:18.301
Told you to come over, but you insisted on meeting me out somewhere.

00:16:19.230 --> 00:16:21.619
Mike is a little off with me for a while now.

00:16:21.990 --> 00:16:25.777
I've said it multiple times Time to get over it, Karen.

00:16:25.777 --> 00:16:29.039
He's fine, and he was fine the other night when he came by.

00:16:31.250 --> 00:16:35.317
Yeah, I just wouldn't mind hanging out with other people, like another female too.

00:16:36.451 --> 00:16:37.475
Where are you meeting them?

00:16:38.211 --> 00:16:39.817
I don't have plans with them.

00:16:39.817 --> 00:16:44.562
She just said they're headed out in a bit and will text you when they land somewhere.

00:16:44.562 --> 00:16:50.740
If you want to go out with Mike solo, that's fine, just let me know.

00:16:51.931 --> 00:16:56.235
I already told you what you should do, not going to keep doing this.

00:16:57.591 --> 00:17:01.360
I asked to let me know if you guys are going to head out.

00:17:01.360 --> 00:17:14.974
I haven't been out for drinks this week and had a shit week and a shit day and I dread Kaylee or Pat is going to get chatty with me the second I walk in and that's going to irritate you.

00:17:15.910 --> 00:17:19.416
Pat is leaving, kay is with Mad Cam.

00:17:19.416 --> 00:17:22.636
I'll text Chris then.

00:17:22.636 --> 00:17:26.116
We're headed out shortly.

00:17:26.116 --> 00:17:27.476
What's your plan, karen?

00:17:27.890 --> 00:17:29.295
Do you want me to join or no?

00:17:29.797 --> 00:17:33.660
Yes, wasn't sure if you were meeting the Currians.

00:17:35.731 --> 00:17:37.679
They are not out drinking yet.

00:17:37.679 --> 00:17:41.815
Where are you headed?

00:17:42.316 --> 00:17:44.761
Trying to decide, maybe McCarthy's.

00:17:45.482 --> 00:17:48.556
Okay, then let me know where you decide.

00:17:48.556 --> 00:17:50.740
I'm still down in Mansfield.

00:17:51.561 --> 00:17:54.192
Tell me when you leave, still waiting on McKinney's.

00:17:55.976 --> 00:18:00.624
I'm having issues with my hot water, so had to text someone to take a look.

00:18:02.849 --> 00:18:03.992
You trying to piss me off.

00:18:03.992 --> 00:18:06.701
Hope your plumber buddy that you texted is hot.

00:18:12.309 --> 00:18:15.518
Nope, my shower only got lukewarm and now my sink won't run hot at all.

00:18:15.518 --> 00:18:17.442
The plumber I used to use is right down the road.

00:18:17.442 --> 00:18:25.055
I turned the temp thing in the basement all the way up.

00:18:25.810 --> 00:18:27.797
Check the water heater and see if it's leaking.

00:18:28.178 --> 00:18:28.921
It's not.

00:18:29.290 --> 00:18:29.792
Don't do.

00:18:29.792 --> 00:18:33.257
That Is the pilot lit.

00:18:33.971 --> 00:18:36.678
I was trying to get my shower hot.

00:18:38.241 --> 00:18:43.296
Yes, Don't turn it up all the way, it will burn out.

00:18:44.790 --> 00:18:48.402
I had this issue twice before and it wasn't a disaster.

00:18:48.402 --> 00:18:50.637
I just can't remember what the cause was.

00:18:52.971 --> 00:18:56.040
Just turn it back down to where it was and get over here.

00:18:57.611 --> 00:19:04.223
I don't want to come home in a blizzard and be up shit creek.

00:19:05.771 --> 00:19:07.278
So you're going home tonight.

00:19:08.510 --> 00:19:10.214
Or tomorrow or whenever.

00:19:10.214 --> 00:19:14.002
I've had a chill all day since my shower.

00:19:14.830 --> 00:19:16.654
It's going to snow all day tomorrow.

00:19:16.654 --> 00:19:19.602
No driving, we're headed to McCarthy's.

00:19:19.602 --> 00:19:27.257
Okay, let me know if you end up leaving, why Now you're not coming?

00:19:28.199 --> 00:19:29.320
I'm waiting for the plumber.

00:19:29.320 --> 00:19:31.550
I actually think he's in the driveway.

00:19:34.056 --> 00:19:37.682
We're taking Mike's car so I'm relying on you on a ride home.

00:19:37.682 --> 00:19:47.904
If he leaves, he's not going home after question mark.

00:19:47.904 --> 00:19:49.512
He may have to get Michael.

00:19:49.512 --> 00:19:56.750
You have a plumber coming over at 8 o'clock knowing me, and Papa could have handled it Good luck.

00:19:56.790 --> 00:20:04.315
I have always told you I will not put either of you out of your way the way everyone else in your life does.

00:20:04.315 --> 00:20:11.979
I knew it wasn't working right when you were at the doctors with Kaylee and I knew neither of you could get here.

00:20:11.979 --> 00:20:14.961
And this guy, richie, fixed it last time.

00:20:14.961 --> 00:20:19.123
Whatever it was, he was supposed to be here at five.

00:20:19.123 --> 00:20:23.566
If it's not a quick fix, I'll tell him just to forget it.

00:20:24.125 --> 00:20:27.367
Well, if you need a whole new water heater, don't let him do it.

00:20:28.990 --> 00:20:29.250
He's here now.

00:20:29.250 --> 00:20:32.339
If it's not quick I'm not doing it.

00:20:32.339 --> 00:20:38.103
I just want to be sure nothing is wrong or will go wrong when I'm not home.

00:20:38.103 --> 00:20:40.476
He's not a scammer.

00:20:40.476 --> 00:20:44.599
Half the quick stuff he doesn't even charge me for.

00:20:44.599 --> 00:20:47.718
He just puts the toilet seat on crooked.

00:20:48.480 --> 00:20:48.981
Status.

00:20:49.990 --> 00:20:56.867
Still here, said he's got to go to HD and probably be back Monday.

00:20:56.867 --> 00:20:59.134
So probably be back Monday.

00:20:59.134 --> 00:21:06.798
So Just trying to figure out if I need to be here.

00:21:08.172 --> 00:21:08.996
What does it need?

00:21:09.832 --> 00:21:10.374
I don't know.

00:21:10.374 --> 00:21:13.750
He showed me some piece that was all rusted.

00:21:13.750 --> 00:21:16.257
I don't understand half of this stuff.

00:21:16.537 --> 00:21:17.359
On the water heater.

00:21:17.760 --> 00:21:18.122
Yes.

00:21:20.090 --> 00:21:20.913
Tell him to leave.

00:21:20.913 --> 00:21:22.657
I'll take care of it.

00:21:22.657 --> 00:21:23.621
Sunday or Monday.

00:21:25.211 --> 00:21:26.313
No, it's okay.

00:21:26.313 --> 00:21:30.663
I can either meet him here or just shut off the alarm.

00:21:30.663 --> 00:21:33.519
He used to work here while I was at work.

00:21:34.529 --> 00:21:38.340
Does he realize it will be a white-out conditions tomorrow AM?

00:21:38.910 --> 00:21:40.897
Yeah, but he lives right down the road.

00:21:41.390 --> 00:21:44.420
Karen, this storm is going to be intense, can't drive.

00:21:44.970 --> 00:21:47.419
Okay, well, if he can't, he can't.

00:21:47.971 --> 00:21:49.114
I'll do it Monday.

00:21:50.819 --> 00:21:53.880
Ha, I better not still have this problem on Monday.

00:21:54.451 --> 00:21:55.556
You plan on being there?

00:21:58.511 --> 00:21:59.115
I don't know.

00:21:59.115 --> 00:22:02.319
I can take a hot shower here if I needed to.

00:22:03.550 --> 00:22:05.417
Figured you'd be in Canton till Monday.

00:22:05.417 --> 00:22:09.355
I'm getting off the phone.

00:22:09.355 --> 00:22:10.759
Let me know what you're doing.

00:22:12.391 --> 00:22:17.923
I think the four of us together is toxic to this relationship, would like to limit it.

00:22:17.923 --> 00:22:21.537
You've said so yourself for probably a year now.

00:22:23.682 --> 00:22:27.435
We have another redacted text, so we're going to go back to you.

00:22:29.070 --> 00:22:30.076
Blizzard tomorrow.

00:22:30.076 --> 00:22:31.817
Nobody's going anywhere.

00:22:31.817 --> 00:22:37.898
Maybe I'll come back late tonight.

00:22:37.898 --> 00:22:41.364
Bad snow is in the early am.

00:22:41.364 --> 00:22:43.988
I'm headed up there in a few minutes.

00:22:43.988 --> 00:22:45.589
Let me know if you leave.

00:22:47.075 --> 00:22:54.663
Sure, that's the end of the text thread that we want to share, because the rest of the text thread is really small and it is.

00:22:54.663 --> 00:22:59.347
It takes place after John O'Keefe's body is found.

00:22:59.347 --> 00:23:08.942
So we're going to go back and we're going to go through these text messages, not reread them, but just our opinions and what we think, exactly the feelings and what's going on right here.

00:23:10.435 --> 00:23:30.044
So from out of the gate these messages you can tell there's some type of problems or distance, because her first text was you really have hurt me this time, so that he is sorry for lashing out.

00:23:30.044 --> 00:23:39.086
He is hurting and struggling daily and he always feels like he's failing at this parenting thing and that he wasn't built for it.

00:23:39.086 --> 00:23:55.900
So he's really struggling internally with raising these his niece and nephew and not necessarily having enough support from his family or his mom.

00:23:55.900 --> 00:24:07.083
That's kind of the vibe that I'm getting, because Karen's there trying to help, but it seems like when she tries to help he gets aggravated at her, so they're just completely on the rocks.

00:24:07.463 --> 00:24:22.144
Right, and it also seems to me like he has so many things going on and at this point in their relationships, through reading the text thread, he's kind of pushing her off and it seems like he's tired of fucking with all of it.

00:24:22.144 --> 00:24:28.729
It seems like they're like immaturely, back and forth and back and forth, and back and forth.

00:24:28.729 --> 00:24:30.058
Do you get that from that?

00:24:30.740 --> 00:24:38.221
I sure do, because I sure do, and to me it doesn't seem like he doesn't give a shit one way or the other, even though he says are you coming or not?

00:24:38.221 --> 00:24:46.955
It seems like she's throwing out there some bullshit, um fishing, and he's just like you know, be real, be straight, are we going to meet?

00:24:46.955 --> 00:24:47.718
Are you coming?

00:24:47.718 --> 00:24:48.419
I mean, can you?

00:24:48.419 --> 00:24:49.301
Can come to the house.

00:24:49.301 --> 00:24:54.898
He's given her options and she's has reasons for a lot of these options.

00:24:54.898 --> 00:24:58.723
She doesn't want to go out with Mike because her and Mike's not cool.

00:24:58.723 --> 00:25:07.885
She doesn't want to come to the house because his father's there and she thinks there's going to be issues with the kids conversating with them.

00:25:07.885 --> 00:25:12.305
I mean, so she's the one kind of throwing the wrenches in everything that he is suggesting.

00:25:13.307 --> 00:25:17.400
Yeah, but then he's like oh, are you coming over here?

00:25:17.400 --> 00:25:30.871
I'm sorry, it's like he wants her there, but he wants her there but he doesn't sometimes.

00:25:30.871 --> 00:25:34.075
I mean I'm sure she's crazy and they've been fighting.

00:25:34.075 --> 00:25:46.538
It sounds like they've been at a standoff for a few months, at least that day, from that morning yeah, everything's not been going good and everything's not perfect.

00:25:46.538 --> 00:25:56.269
And this thing about this plumber like she was trying to piss him off yeah, because he even said are you trying to fucking piss me off?

00:25:56.691 --> 00:25:57.914
I mean, it's friday night.

00:25:57.914 --> 00:26:00.736
She already said she was ready to drink, ready to drink.

00:26:00.736 --> 00:26:01.717
She had a rough week.

00:26:01.717 --> 00:26:04.843
She offered to meet him at the.

00:26:04.923 --> 00:26:07.848
Hillside, which is her regular bar.

00:26:07.848 --> 00:26:17.540
You'll find out later that through text threads from her and Brian Higgins that that is her watering hole and she's there every weekend.

00:26:17.540 --> 00:26:24.547
So it's kind of hard for me to imagine that she's waiting on a plumber that late on a Friday night when she has already took a shower.

00:26:24.547 --> 00:26:26.199
That seems kind of hokey to me.

00:26:26.199 --> 00:26:40.866
I wonder if she was really even home at this point, because she was sure wanting to know, when he was leaving, where he was at, where he was going, kind of like maybe she could be somewhere else and she just wanted to know what the ETA is, or you is, so she'd know where he's at.

00:26:41.127 --> 00:26:47.884
Absolutely, and he's not showing up, but she did ask him will you meet me at the Hillside Bar?

00:26:49.248 --> 00:26:50.411
Right At what 4.30?

00:26:50.411 --> 00:26:51.994
Or 5 o'clock.

00:26:52.175 --> 00:26:53.741
Yeah, around 4.30.

00:26:53.994 --> 00:26:55.340
Because she needed a drink.

00:26:56.335 --> 00:27:09.465
Yeah, so I'm assuming that she's already at the Hillside Bar having a few drinks, getting a little loose, and then she's going to meet him later somewhere at another bar.

00:27:09.946 --> 00:27:16.031
Now I think we've had some other information that maybe some other people was at the Hillside Bar at this time too.

00:27:53.835 --> 00:28:06.855
no-transcript person can tell this.

00:28:06.855 --> 00:28:18.627
Now, once the police are on scene, the emt slash paramedics get john loaded up into the ambulance and they take him to good samaritan hospital where they don't know the extent of his injuries but they're trying to get him warmed back up.

00:28:18.627 --> 00:28:23.583
They think he's just frozen at this point and they feel like they can save him.

00:28:23.583 --> 00:28:29.007
Now Karen is absolutely losing her shit, so bad she can barely speak.

00:28:29.007 --> 00:28:36.964
So Jen McCabe is the first person to speak with the police and the paramedics when they arrive.

00:28:37.855 --> 00:28:46.959
At some point after the paramedics left with john, karen and kerry leave to go to the hospital.

00:28:46.959 --> 00:29:12.249
But the police called kary roberts back and had her bring karen reed back to the scene because her father had called dispatch, afraid that Karen was suicidal and they were going to Section 12, her she was making statements that she didn't want to live anymore because she thinks John is dead.

00:29:12.249 --> 00:29:18.468
So of course, carrie Roberts takes Karen back to the scene and the ambulance is waiting.

00:29:18.468 --> 00:29:26.582
Karen back to the scene and the ambulance is waiting because section 12 is, like you know, the fifth floor, loony bin type shit.

00:29:26.582 --> 00:29:28.586
Well, karen arrives at the hospital.

00:29:28.586 --> 00:29:53.527
She is clearly in shock and screaming, crying for John, and she sees John's brother, paul, as he's walking through the hallway and he blows her a kiss and goes on to find out the status, as he waits with his parents and his longtime friend Kerry Roberts, about how John is doing and what the prognosis is.

00:29:53.527 --> 00:30:02.895
Sadly, doctors arrive to let the family know that Officer John O'Keefe sadly did not make it and that he had passed away.

00:30:05.000 --> 00:30:07.545
Now, at this point I want to take you back to the crime scene.

00:30:07.545 --> 00:30:12.700
I have been a crime junkie my whole life.

00:30:12.700 --> 00:30:21.285
I have studied crime scene, I have studied the analytics of crime scene and this crime scene was definitely not treated right.

00:30:21.285 --> 00:30:26.111
And this really pisses me off, because this is a Boston police officer.

00:30:26.111 --> 00:30:27.836
Nobody knows what happened to him yet.

00:30:27.836 --> 00:30:31.163
The initial injuries look pretty shaky to me.

00:30:31.163 --> 00:30:34.434
He was found in a Boston police officer's yard.

00:30:34.955 --> 00:30:47.932
Okay, so right now the protocol would have been everybody at that house, everybody that was with him last night, should have been separated, should have been took to the station, should have been formally interviewed.

00:30:47.932 --> 00:30:56.289
The crime scene, a certain perimeter around where John O'Keefe was found in the snow, that should have been coordinated off.

00:30:56.289 --> 00:30:57.420
That should have been taped off.

00:30:57.420 --> 00:31:00.461
There should have been an officer there protecting evidence.

00:31:00.461 --> 00:31:04.232
They should have tested everything for blood.

00:31:04.232 --> 00:31:11.391
They should have took measurements, the way he was laying, the distance from the road, his position.

00:31:11.391 --> 00:31:15.303
They should have got every little bit of information anywhere.

00:31:15.303 --> 00:31:17.289
I mean literally they didn't do shit.

00:31:17.289 --> 00:31:28.703
The police detectives dropped the ball on this, I have to say, and that's aggravating as shit to me, because that's a big problem with this case and there's reasons why it was done like that as well.

00:31:29.276 --> 00:31:37.724
The responding officers attempted to section off the area, but gave up shortly after because the wind became too much for them.

00:31:37.724 --> 00:31:47.621
No measurements were taken of where John's body was laying in reference to his surrounding, since it was snowing and no tent was put up.

00:31:47.621 --> 00:31:59.909
Snow just continues to fall, blow all over the initial spot where John's body was, so they decided to take a snow blower to try and find evidence in the snow.

00:31:59.909 --> 00:32:04.978
A snowblower to try and find evidence in the snow.

00:32:04.978 --> 00:32:07.962
All they found was his phone underneath him and broken pieces of glass.

00:32:07.962 --> 00:32:20.045
He was also missing a shoe and his body was laying on snow, and there was approximately six blood stains in the snow.

00:32:20.045 --> 00:32:23.672
This lasted a whole two hours.

00:32:23.672 --> 00:32:30.765
Officers were off the scene by 8 am and it wasn't preserved in any type of way.

00:32:31.586 --> 00:32:39.345
Now, just to specify the glass that was found on the crime scene initially wasn't glass from any type of evidence.

00:32:39.345 --> 00:32:42.450
It was the glass that he was seen holding outside.

00:32:42.450 --> 00:32:43.519
It was a drink glass.

00:32:43.519 --> 00:32:45.722
That was the glass that was found initially.

00:32:49.396 --> 00:33:07.685
The family leave the hospital and go to John's residence because John's niece, kaylee, is home alone and they need to tell her what has happened to John and wait for her younger brother to be dropped off from being at his friend's house the previous evening.

00:33:07.685 --> 00:33:12.661
Meanwhile Karen is still at the hospital being sectioned 12.

00:33:12.661 --> 00:33:16.775
They do a blood draw and then they release her.

00:33:16.775 --> 00:33:31.511
Shortly after that Her father drives her to John's house where she goes in to talk to the family and gather her belongings and drives her car to her parents' home in North Dighton, massachusetts.

00:33:31.511 --> 00:33:48.839
Detective Sergeant Link receives a phone call from Jen McCabe at 9 am asking him to meet her because she recalls Karen Reed saying quote I hope I didn't hit him.

00:33:48.839 --> 00:33:53.229
End quote while they were driving around looking for him.

00:33:53.229 --> 00:34:08.902
This is, of course, after Jen McCabe, her sister Nicole and their husbands sit and have a little powwow for two hours at 34 Fairview Road and then she magically remembers.

00:34:08.902 --> 00:34:14.269
No, that's not suspicious at all, is it?

00:34:15.494 --> 00:34:16.815
No, I mean, you know what she said.

00:34:16.815 --> 00:34:18.715
Could I have hit him?

00:34:18.715 --> 00:34:19.536
Did I hit him?

00:34:19.536 --> 00:34:20.876
I mean she was freaking out.

00:34:20.876 --> 00:34:22.998
She was literally freaking out.

00:34:22.998 --> 00:34:23.958
She's not screaming.

00:34:23.958 --> 00:34:25.617
Oh, I hit him, I hit him.

00:34:25.617 --> 00:34:26.498
I know I hit him.

00:34:26.498 --> 00:34:27.978
We all know that's bullshit.

00:34:27.998 --> 00:34:41.724
They spun the tables on that, on her 100% been conflicted due to Brian Albert's brother being a detective for the police department.

00:34:41.724 --> 00:34:48.085
That is why the Massachusetts State Police took jurisdiction over the investigation.

00:34:48.085 --> 00:34:54.467
Now, what are some of the first things that happen in an investigation like this?

00:34:54.467 --> 00:35:01.429

Secrets in the Snow: John OKeefe Murdered Part 2

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