Oct. 9, 2024

Secrets in the Snow: Karen Read Navigating Deceit and Desire Part 3

Secrets in the Snow: Karen Read Navigating Deceit and Desire Part 3
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Season 1

What happens when explosive text messages reveal the tangled web of deceit and flirtation in a high-stakes trial? Join us in Podcast 69 South as we peel back the layers of the complex drama involving Karen Read and her entangled relationships with Boston Police Officer John O'Keefe and DOJ ATF agent Brian Higgins. Through these riveting messages, we uncover Karen's desperate search for validation and her struggle to juggle responsibilities with John's family while engaging in flirtatious exchanges with Brian Higgins. We invite you to explore with us the chaos that Brian might have unwittingly walked into and the missing pieces in this unfolding drama that hint at deeper entanglements.

As we sift through the intricate dynamics of trust, suspected infidelity, and emotional vulnerabilities, we examine the moral implications of the choices made by those involved. We'll navigate the blurred lines between friendship and romantic interest, and the challenges of balancing personal desires with relationship expectations. Our discussion will reflect on the complexities of personal relationships and the importance of honesty and communication. Stay tuned for a sneak peek into our next episode, where we'll trace the blue blood family tree of the Massachusetts State Police and the Canton PD, offering insights into Boston's Boys in Blue. Share your thoughts with us on social media and subscribe to keep exploring these fascinating topics together.

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Disclaimer: All defendants are INNOCENT UNTIL PROVEN GUILTY in a court of law. All facts are alleged until a conviction!

00:05 - Explosive Messages Uncovered in Trial

19:44 - Complicated Relationships and Betrayal

35:54 - Uncovering Police Family Tree

WEBVTT

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69 South 69 South 69 South.

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69 South 69 South.

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Welcome everyone to Podcast 69 South, where we cuss and discuss true crime, cold cases, current events and hot topics, along with our state of society today.

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This is your trigger warning.

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Our podcast content is produced for adult listeners, 18 years of age and older.

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We discuss situations that may be offensive and triggering to some listeners.

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Sit back, relax and enjoy.

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Welcome back everybody to another episode of 69 South.

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We hope you had a good time since the last time I'm Chop, and joining me is my beautiful co-host, julie.

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Today we're diving deep in the explosive messages that surfaced during the trial between Karen Reed and Brian Higgins.

00:01:14.501 --> 00:01:19.691
Hey everyone, I have to say when these messages came out I was shocked.

00:01:19.691 --> 00:01:22.522
It's like peeling back layers of deceit.

00:01:22.522 --> 00:01:23.703
It's like peeling back layers of deceit.

00:01:23.703 --> 00:01:33.332
Karen was living with John, yet she was texting Brian Higgins as if everything with her relationship was on the rocks.

00:01:34.474 --> 00:01:34.974
Exactly.

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I mean, it raises so many questions about her honesty.

00:01:37.777 --> 00:01:42.263
And I'll tell you what.

00:01:42.263 --> 00:01:47.346
I'm pretty sure those were screenshots of the messages and I think there's some messages that was missing screenshots of the messages and I think there's some messages that was missing.

00:01:47.346 --> 00:01:50.960
But she was clearly entertaining the thoughts of another dude while she was maintaining her relationship with John.

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It's like she was searching for validation, or maybe seeking attention or a way out of her situation.

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And let's not forget that she was helping John raise his niece and nephew, which she didn't want to be in that particular situation.

00:02:06.010 --> 00:02:15.353
It must have been a lot for her to handle, and it seems like Brian Higgins represented some kind of escape for her a fantasy, if you will.

00:02:15.879 --> 00:02:17.927
Yeah, a fantasy that turned into a nightmare.

00:02:17.927 --> 00:02:22.471
It's unbecoming for a woman who portrays herself as Jezebel.

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Just be real, Karen.

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And what about Higgins?

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He seemed completely oblivious to the chaos he was stepping into.

00:02:30.288 --> 00:02:34.055
We have to get into these juicy text messages.

00:02:34.055 --> 00:02:38.849
You know, the tea is piping hot and the buzz is boiling over.

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So we're going to get into these text messages between Karen Reed and Brian Higgins.

00:02:43.447 --> 00:02:49.366
These did just only come out in trial and, like I said, I'm pretty sure there's some missing.

00:02:49.366 --> 00:03:05.508
But I'm going to be talking the text messages from Brian Higgins and Miss Julie is going to be talking the Karen Reed text messages and you can see for yourself there was clearly some flirtation and some dancing around some shit.

00:03:05.508 --> 00:03:07.728
So, without further delay, here we go.

00:03:09.439 --> 00:03:11.567
Hey Brian, it's the Weed Whacker.

00:03:12.368 --> 00:03:13.050
Question mark.

00:03:13.050 --> 00:03:20.550
And then he sent a picture of Smirnoff Ice Screwdrivers.

00:03:23.341 --> 00:03:24.305
Did you try those Smirnoff Screwdrivers?

00:03:24.305 --> 00:03:26.515
Did you try those Smirnoff screwdrivers?

00:03:26.515 --> 00:03:30.288
Question mark I stopped at the Hilly for one last night.

00:03:30.789 --> 00:03:33.645
Ha ha, how did you get my digits?

00:03:33.645 --> 00:03:35.270
Question mark times five.

00:03:35.270 --> 00:03:41.265
The Melissa and Lito show Ha ha, I thought she was creeping John's phone.

00:03:41.265 --> 00:03:42.068
Ha ha.

00:03:42.368 --> 00:03:47.402
No way, I was the last person in the greater Canton area who didn't have your number.

00:03:47.402 --> 00:03:49.489
I think even Carrie has it.

00:03:49.991 --> 00:03:51.153
What Question?

00:03:51.153 --> 00:03:52.318
Question question mark.

00:03:52.318 --> 00:03:55.264
I just don't give my personal number out to anyone.

00:03:55.264 --> 00:03:58.151
How would Carrie have my number?

00:03:58.151 --> 00:03:59.602
Question mark, question mark.

00:04:00.483 --> 00:04:01.665
Melissa had it.

00:04:01.665 --> 00:04:05.633
I'd prefer Weed Whacker.

00:04:07.401 --> 00:04:09.209
Yeah, that's the thing about nicknames.

00:04:09.961 --> 00:04:16.567
We were tossing around the idea of a short vacay with the Koran show, wanted to see if you were game.

00:04:17.540 --> 00:04:20.127
You don't have a say, vacation where?

00:04:21.110 --> 00:04:24.329
I know they need to happen organically.

00:04:24.329 --> 00:04:31.531
I'm the queen of nicknames Was just going to rent a beach house in Fort Lauderdale Something quick and easy.

00:04:31.531 --> 00:04:39.326
I'm queen of vacays too.

00:04:39.326 --> 00:04:41.350
Always a good time.

00:04:42.261 --> 00:04:47.189
I'm going to Nashville next month 10-21 for a benefit.

00:04:47.189 --> 00:04:49.492
One of our guys got shot in the head.

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You guys should come.

00:04:55.365 --> 00:04:56.767
No, you're not a creep.

00:04:57.689 --> 00:04:57.949
Nope.

00:04:58.850 --> 00:05:01.175
You're kind of a loner which I used to be.

00:05:02.420 --> 00:05:02.841
Not really.

00:05:02.841 --> 00:05:09.062
I have a ton of buddies but I only let a handful of friends that I am tight with.

00:05:09.062 --> 00:05:11.668
So you think you got me figured out.

00:05:11.668 --> 00:05:14.394
Circle of trust in quotation marks.

00:05:15.281 --> 00:05:18.048
Yeah, I said loner, not loser.

00:05:18.048 --> 00:05:20.233
I assume you know a lot of people.

00:05:20.233 --> 00:05:24.384
You never really can figure anyone out completely.

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Your dad died when you were young.

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Question mark.

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He died in March of 2020.

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I am so not a loser.

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You won't figure me out, LOL.

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No one is a loser.

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I just didn't mean loner to imply friendless.

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I'm sorry that's recent.

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It wasn't COVID, was it?

00:05:45.966 --> 00:05:46.488
Cancer.

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I know you date girls who don't lock the house behind them and you are private and observant.

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I'm sorry, what kind.

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Lung, brain, kidney and pelvis.

00:06:00.129 --> 00:06:02.004
How do you know all these things?

00:06:02.567 --> 00:06:04.072
You're funny, yikes Wow that's rough, jesus, I'm sorry.

00:06:04.072 --> 00:06:04.312
Don't be sh-.

00:06:04.312 --> 00:06:05.115
How do you know all these things?

00:06:05.115 --> 00:06:05.497
You're funny, yikes.

00:06:05.497 --> 00:06:07.846
Wow, that's rough, jesus, I'm sorry.

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We chat a lot at the hillside.

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Don't be sorry, life is hard sometimes.

00:06:15.125 --> 00:06:17.545
I always figure it out who chats.

00:06:18.240 --> 00:06:22.869
Life is hard, but losing people is the hardest, so I'm sorry we chat.

00:06:23.550 --> 00:06:24.432
That's all you got.

00:06:24.432 --> 00:06:25.213
We chat.

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Sure, you're from Brockton, spit it out.

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You and I chatted about the girl who kept forgetting the door lock.

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Oh, she's been out of play for like three months now.

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Out of rotation question mark.

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I just got a Saturday night invite.

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Did you say yes?

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Not yet, but did respond.

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What did you say?

00:06:54.598 --> 00:06:57.565
Question mark, mr Elusive.

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No, I just don't want to intrude on your couples night.

00:07:01.242 --> 00:07:03.206
Ha ha, I am shy.

00:07:03.954 --> 00:07:06.478
We prefer to hang out with non-couples.

00:07:06.478 --> 00:07:10.084
Bob Gallery is probably coming too Solo.

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We'll probably do cards or something at some point.

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I am inviting you.

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Ha ha.

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John said Brian is being wishy-washy now.

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Ha ha, did you tell him, you texted me?

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No.

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Thumbs up, you cranky now.

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Ha ha.

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No, Just stop being so anti-couples.

00:07:37.904 --> 00:07:40.180
Most couples don't even like each other.

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Name a few.

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Name a few question mark.

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I don't know All of them.

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They all want to hang out with single people.

00:07:48.221 --> 00:07:50.567
Hmm, foul ball.

00:07:51.076 --> 00:07:52.019
You stink.

00:07:53.475 --> 00:07:54.877
You suck and you're double trouble.

00:07:54.877 --> 00:07:56.639
You stink, you suck and you're double trouble.

00:07:57.221 --> 00:07:57.942
You're hot.

00:07:58.843 --> 00:08:00.886
Are you serious or messing with me?

00:08:01.386 --> 00:08:03.189
No, I'm serious.

00:08:03.488 --> 00:08:04.750
Feeling is mutual.

00:08:04.750 --> 00:08:07.600
Is that bad?

00:08:07.600 --> 00:08:08.944
How long have you thought that?

00:08:11.095 --> 00:08:11.557
Are you okay driving?

00:08:11.557 --> 00:08:12.762
You don't want to stay here.

00:08:14.617 --> 00:08:16.803
I'm fine, I have an office at the PD.

00:08:16.803 --> 00:08:19.262
You didn't answer the question.

00:08:20.675 --> 00:08:22.163
I'd rather you stay here.

00:08:23.375 --> 00:08:23.857
I wish.

00:08:23.857 --> 00:08:26.165
I think you're messing with me.

00:08:26.795 --> 00:08:27.880
Why do you think that?

00:08:28.915 --> 00:08:30.884
Because this is so out of left field.

00:08:30.884 --> 00:08:34.104
Where did these feelings come from?

00:08:35.138 --> 00:08:36.481
I just think you're like me.

00:08:37.205 --> 00:08:37.645
Meaning.

00:08:39.135 --> 00:08:40.581
Do you have your own kids?

00:08:40.581 --> 00:08:41.364
Question mark.

00:08:41.755 --> 00:08:42.760
I have no kids.

00:08:42.760 --> 00:08:44.320
How am I like you?

00:08:44.320 --> 00:08:47.163
Um hello.

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Aren't we alike question mark.

00:08:50.402 --> 00:08:51.224
Question mark.

00:08:51.565 --> 00:08:52.187
I think so.

00:08:52.187 --> 00:08:55.344
So why did you get my number and reach out to me?

00:08:55.344 --> 00:09:00.139
Shoot straight with me.

00:09:00.741 --> 00:09:03.342
I told you, I just think we're alike right.

00:09:04.215 --> 00:09:05.157
Yes, I agree.

00:09:05.157 --> 00:09:06.238
Now what?

00:09:06.798 --> 00:09:07.379
I don't know.

00:09:09.942 --> 00:09:10.683
Shouldn't you know?

00:09:11.645 --> 00:09:13.067
Do you like me Question mark?

00:09:13.067 --> 00:09:13.508
Yes, yes, from Jump.

00:09:13.528 --> 00:09:14.750
When was Jump?

00:09:14.750 --> 00:09:15.490
First time I saw you?

00:09:16.172 --> 00:09:16.611
Shouldn't you know?

00:09:16.611 --> 00:09:17.212
Do you like me?

00:09:17.494 --> 00:09:18.053
Yes From Jump.

00:09:18.053 --> 00:09:19.177
When was Jump First?

00:09:19.197 --> 00:09:20.101
time I saw you.

00:09:20.101 --> 00:09:21.067
When was that?

00:09:21.067 --> 00:09:24.260
First time I saw you.

00:09:24.260 --> 00:09:25.144
When was that?

00:09:28.384 --> 00:09:30.636
Hmm, hillside, for sure.

00:09:30.636 --> 00:09:31.839
When were you interested?

00:09:32.499 --> 00:09:34.322
I don't know, you're just my type.

00:09:35.043 --> 00:09:36.244
You think you can handle me.

00:09:36.244 --> 00:09:37.966
I thought you were happy.

00:09:37.966 --> 00:09:39.307
Question mark.

00:09:40.249 --> 00:09:41.691
How do you know if I'm happy?

00:09:43.335 --> 00:09:45.495
I just assumed.

00:09:45.515 --> 00:09:48.256
Are you a little hard to handle?

00:09:49.197 --> 00:09:50.457
What do you like about me?

00:09:51.057 --> 00:09:52.999
I just feel like you're from my neighborhood.

00:09:53.918 --> 00:09:55.399
Yeah, ditto.

00:09:56.399 --> 00:09:57.581
And I think you're hot.

00:09:58.081 --> 00:09:59.140
You really think that?

00:09:59.140 --> 00:10:01.501
I have always thought that about you.

00:10:01.961 --> 00:10:02.402
What.

00:10:03.322 --> 00:10:10.385
That you're hot, smart, witty, but didn't think you were interested, Witty Question mark.

00:10:10.426 --> 00:10:11.186
question mark.

00:10:11.426 --> 00:10:13.427
Yeah, meaning quick with a response.

00:10:13.427 --> 00:10:17.408
Tell me why you got my number and reached out to me.

00:10:18.028 --> 00:10:21.070
Just thought we were the same from the same neighborhood.

00:10:21.649 --> 00:10:24.230
Are you afraid to say what's on your mind?

00:10:25.230 --> 00:10:27.552
No, didn't I Question mark.

00:10:27.552 --> 00:10:28.352
Question mark.

00:10:29.033 --> 00:10:30.394
I am glad I stopped by.

00:10:30.394 --> 00:10:33.498
I should have come earlier.

00:10:33.498 --> 00:10:35.667
Do you really live in Mansfield?

00:10:36.288 --> 00:10:49.400
Yeah, I was basically begging you?

00:10:49.441 --> 00:10:54.344
You don't have to beg me Huh Kinda.

00:10:55.004 --> 00:10:56.284
How am I texting?

00:10:57.504 --> 00:10:58.485
Is everyone asleep?

00:10:59.346 --> 00:11:01.667
I'm just wide awake on my phone.

00:11:01.667 --> 00:11:03.388
Yes, they are.

00:11:04.408 --> 00:11:05.970
I should have stayed, lol.

00:11:05.970 --> 00:11:07.269
So what now?

00:11:08.510 --> 00:11:09.851
Yes, you should have.

00:11:11.172 --> 00:11:12.613
That would have been distracting.

00:11:12.613 --> 00:11:17.120
So now, what Now?

00:11:17.140 --> 00:11:17.581
Now what.

00:11:18.023 --> 00:11:20.087
Loaded question what do you want?

00:11:20.087 --> 00:11:23.475
I asked you.

00:11:23.475 --> 00:11:26.538
Nope, you initiated this, spit it out.

00:11:27.578 --> 00:11:30.000
Hey, we're single and we don't have kids.

00:11:30.000 --> 00:11:31.500
We can do whatever we want.

00:11:32.240 --> 00:11:33.381
Don't you have a boyfriend?

00:11:33.883 --> 00:11:34.863
Where are you?

00:11:35.322 --> 00:11:35.783
Canton.

00:11:36.283 --> 00:11:36.604
Where.

00:11:37.924 --> 00:11:39.645
My office at the police department.

00:11:39.645 --> 00:11:42.027
Why are you going to Mansfield?

00:11:42.467 --> 00:11:43.288
Where's that?

00:11:44.009 --> 00:11:44.908
Canton PD.

00:11:45.929 --> 00:11:48.912
I have a house there from before I reconnected with John.

00:11:49.711 --> 00:11:51.312
Oh, dot, dot, dot, dot, dot dot.

00:11:54.897 --> 00:11:59.297
I feel like you're not really saying what's on your mind, do you like?

00:11:59.317 --> 00:12:01.821
me, yes, clearly.

00:12:03.062 --> 00:12:04.264
Come over to my house.

00:12:04.645 --> 00:12:04.986
When.

00:12:05.548 --> 00:12:06.489
When works for you.

00:12:08.860 --> 00:12:11.136
Whenever, whenever, when works for you?

00:12:11.136 --> 00:12:12.221
I asked you first.

00:12:12.221 --> 00:12:14.642
I think you're messing with me.

00:12:14.642 --> 00:12:18.557
I'm glad you came over tonight.

00:12:18.557 --> 00:12:19.057
Me too.

00:12:19.057 --> 00:12:20.059
Ball's in your court.

00:12:20.059 --> 00:12:21.643
What do you want, karen?

00:12:21.643 --> 00:12:23.307
You looked great tonight.

00:12:23.307 --> 00:12:24.328
I don't know.

00:12:24.328 --> 00:12:25.576
What do you want?

00:12:25.576 --> 00:12:26.697
You always do.

00:12:27.798 --> 00:12:29.620
Yeesh, really why.

00:12:29.620 --> 00:12:31.423
I looked great, You're full of it.

00:12:31.423 --> 00:12:33.304
I looked great, you're full of it.

00:12:34.386 --> 00:12:37.470
I think you're hot, always have thought that.

00:12:41.096 --> 00:12:44.351
Just have not revealed my thoughts.

00:12:45.955 --> 00:12:46.477
I'm hot for the hillside.

00:12:46.477 --> 00:12:47.019
Low comps, Knock it off.

00:12:47.019 --> 00:12:48.285
You're hot period.

00:12:48.285 --> 00:12:50.461
Are you glad you walked me out?

00:12:51.115 --> 00:12:52.159
Um, yes, are you question mark.

00:12:52.159 --> 00:12:54.410
Definitely Are you question mark.

00:12:54.773 --> 00:12:55.195
Definitely.

00:12:55.195 --> 00:12:58.241
Are you going home tonight or tomorrow.

00:12:58.241 --> 00:13:01.381
Am we kissed right?

00:13:01.381 --> 00:13:06.626
Then I questioned that like is this a trick question?

00:13:07.496 --> 00:13:09.443
I don't know when I'm going home.

00:13:09.443 --> 00:13:10.941
I am selling my house.

00:13:10.941 --> 00:13:13.361
What a trick question.

00:13:13.914 --> 00:13:15.119
Are you moving to Canton?

00:13:15.119 --> 00:13:17.416
I am following your lead with this.

00:13:18.518 --> 00:13:21.163
I live here, but I have a property in Mansfield.

00:13:21.163 --> 00:13:22.865
Why my lead?

00:13:22.865 --> 00:13:24.870
I don't want any responsibility.

00:13:25.835 --> 00:13:27.038
You started this right?

00:13:27.038 --> 00:13:30.144
Why did you get my number and reach out to me?

00:13:30.144 --> 00:13:40.355
Still have not told me to me.

00:13:40.355 --> 00:13:40.936
Still have not told me.

00:13:40.956 --> 00:13:43.520
Sorry should I not have question mark, and I don't know why you just won't answer.

00:13:43.581 --> 00:13:44.042
You're mad at me?

00:13:44.042 --> 00:13:45.063
Omg, no, not at all.

00:13:45.063 --> 00:13:46.265
You're being silly.

00:13:46.626 --> 00:13:53.344
I told you, I just think you're like me and I am attracted to you a lot feeling is mutual.

00:13:53.745 --> 00:13:55.168
I just never saw this coming.

00:13:55.568 --> 00:13:55.908
Why.

00:13:57.155 --> 00:14:01.206
Because I just assumed you were happy with your situation.

00:14:02.196 --> 00:14:04.484
I was, but things have deteriorated.

00:14:05.296 --> 00:14:06.260
Why, how?

00:14:06.260 --> 00:14:06.542
So?

00:14:06.542 --> 00:14:09.484
What did Melissa say when you asked for my number?

00:14:10.297 --> 00:14:12.424
It is very, very complicated.

00:14:12.424 --> 00:14:17.746
He and I dated when we were kids and then his sister died and everything got fucked up.

00:14:20.636 --> 00:14:22.222
He seems to be into you.

00:14:23.256 --> 00:14:26.245
I just told Melissa that I had your number but lost it.

00:14:26.875 --> 00:14:27.618
That's cute.

00:14:27.618 --> 00:14:29.342
She wasn't suspicious, no.

00:14:29.363 --> 00:14:32.020
Question mark no, she's great.

00:14:33.235 --> 00:14:34.739
Does she know how you like me?

00:14:35.640 --> 00:14:36.482
She's a sweetie.

00:14:36.482 --> 00:14:38.567
We just agreed that you's great.

00:14:38.567 --> 00:14:40.051
Does she know how you like me?

00:14:40.051 --> 00:14:40.371
She's a sweetie.

00:14:40.371 --> 00:14:41.354
We just agreed that you're great.

00:14:41.354 --> 00:14:43.017
Yeah, but where is that?

00:14:43.017 --> 00:14:47.423
I have had all my shit here for a couple of years and my house has been vacant.

00:14:47.423 --> 00:14:50.708
But I'd like to get closer to the water.

00:14:51.330 --> 00:14:51.610
Hmm.

00:15:01.182 --> 00:15:02.683
Are you breaking up or staying together?

00:15:03.605 --> 00:15:04.385
When was that?

00:15:04.385 --> 00:15:06.268
How did you find out he hooked up?

00:15:06.268 --> 00:15:08.811
I don't want to complicate your situation.

00:15:15.294 --> 00:15:16.297
We went away for New Year's, the four of us.

00:15:16.297 --> 00:15:18.321
I put the kids to bed and found him in the lobby of the hotel, all over one of our friends.

00:15:18.321 --> 00:15:19.342
Whatever, it doesn't matter.

00:15:19.884 --> 00:15:21.908
It does matter, did they bang?

00:15:22.315 --> 00:15:23.217
Does that matter?

00:15:24.061 --> 00:15:25.384
Sorry, I was just asking.

00:15:25.384 --> 00:15:27.591
I was just trying to figure shit out.

00:15:28.114 --> 00:15:29.235
It really doesn't matter.

00:15:29.817 --> 00:15:31.240
Okay, I won't ask again.

00:15:31.721 --> 00:15:33.364
I don't care, it doesn't matter.

00:15:34.245 --> 00:15:36.168
Okay, hear you loud and clear, Karen.

00:15:36.796 --> 00:15:37.740
Uh, okay.

00:15:38.455 --> 00:15:42.687
Why are you getting your thing all twisted up over simple questions, thong?

00:15:43.876 --> 00:15:44.880
I'm not, am I?

00:15:46.437 --> 00:15:47.923
You're kind of getting defensive.

00:15:49.096 --> 00:15:50.700
We did kiss earlier.

00:15:50.700 --> 00:15:52.966
No, no question mark.

00:15:53.615 --> 00:15:55.200
I think you initiated that.

00:15:56.081 --> 00:15:58.587
Yep, do I owe you an apology?

00:15:59.615 --> 00:16:02.580
OMG, no, why are you being sensitive?

00:16:03.301 --> 00:16:03.861
I'm not.

00:16:04.583 --> 00:16:05.024
Kinda.

00:16:06.366 --> 00:16:06.767
Never.

00:16:06.767 --> 00:16:08.210
What do you want from me?

00:16:08.995 --> 00:16:09.836
What's on the table?

00:16:10.518 --> 00:16:12.302
What do you want ideally?

00:16:12.883 --> 00:16:15.688
The real deal Doesn't exist.

00:16:15.688 --> 00:16:22.447
I can go to any base, but usually Hanscom and Bedford or down the Cape.

00:16:23.275 --> 00:16:27.285
Which base down the Cape, which branch?

00:16:27.927 --> 00:16:28.207
Army.

00:16:29.777 --> 00:16:31.683
I'm not abnormally sensitive.

00:16:32.575 --> 00:16:34.058
Joint Base Camp Cod.

00:16:34.058 --> 00:16:37.206
Anyway, I won't be so hard on you.

00:16:37.654 --> 00:16:39.081
Oh, my God, you're not.

00:16:39.081 --> 00:16:40.400
You called me trouble.

00:16:40.400 --> 00:16:41.740
That makes me sound bad.

00:16:42.336 --> 00:16:43.480
I was just playing with you.

00:16:44.596 --> 00:16:45.961
You weren't, but that's okay.

00:16:46.495 --> 00:16:48.583
Stop being sensitive, please.

00:16:49.275 --> 00:16:52.666
I am not, I don't know.

00:16:52.666 --> 00:16:53.961
It's an old colonial.

00:16:53.961 --> 00:16:55.399
It has a lot of bedrooms.

00:16:56.041 --> 00:16:57.205
More than you clearly need.

00:16:57.205 --> 00:16:58.977
Are you moving to Canton?

00:16:59.678 --> 00:17:04.689
I know Seriously, some rooms I only go into to dust, not anytime soon.

00:17:04.689 --> 00:17:07.859
I'm there most of the time, but sometimes it's a lot.

00:17:08.622 --> 00:17:09.042
A lot.

00:17:09.042 --> 00:17:13.076
Why Do you even know what you want or who?

00:17:13.778 --> 00:17:19.608
Because I went from being solo to trying to give attention to kids who aren't mine, and I never wanted kids.

00:17:20.636 --> 00:17:22.703
I thought you were happy in this relationship.

00:17:24.076 --> 00:17:25.823
Everyone is happy at the hillside.

00:17:26.316 --> 00:17:28.202
Oh God, you avoid things.

00:17:28.875 --> 00:17:32.645
It's just a very, very complicated dynamic with the four of us.

00:17:32.645 --> 00:17:38.863
He isn't cut out for what he's doing and the kids present constant issues.

00:17:39.564 --> 00:17:41.628
I think he believes he is doing the right thing.

00:17:42.315 --> 00:17:45.240
Well, of course he is, but his heart isn't in it.

00:17:45.240 --> 00:17:49.435
It's only because he was very, very close to his sister.

00:17:50.959 --> 00:17:52.000
I know how you feel.

00:17:52.000 --> 00:17:53.202
Kinda.

00:17:53.202 --> 00:17:55.929
I was married when I met her.

00:17:55.929 --> 00:17:57.961
She had a two-and-a-half-year-old.

00:17:57.961 --> 00:18:01.384
I went from being single to being a dad.

00:18:01.384 --> 00:18:02.509
It's hard.

00:18:02.509 --> 00:18:08.046
I am divorced since 2017 and have no kids.

00:18:08.536 --> 00:18:14.327
I try very hard but they are very spoiled and they're not my family.

00:18:14.327 --> 00:18:19.406
My parents keep telling me I'd feel differently if they were mine or my own sisters.

00:18:19.406 --> 00:18:27.328
Then I told you he got drunk and sloppy on New Year's Eve while we were away and that has really affected me.

00:18:28.717 --> 00:18:29.862
What did he actually do?

00:18:31.455 --> 00:18:35.886
I never got married and now somehow I'm arguing with someone about raising kids.

00:18:36.576 --> 00:18:37.460
Why won't you tell me?

00:18:38.455 --> 00:18:41.326
He was a puddle all day and then disappeared.

00:18:41.326 --> 00:18:49.019
Then I found him all over his friend's sister in the lobby of our hotel and she's gross, which I think may actually be worse.

00:18:49.019 --> 00:18:50.380
I'm not sure.

00:18:51.000 --> 00:18:52.561
Oh God, Did they bang?

00:18:52.883 --> 00:18:58.989
I was with the kids celebrating New Year's without him, which shouldn't be my role.

00:18:58.989 --> 00:19:00.509
No, I doubt it.

00:19:00.509 --> 00:19:01.490
He was a mess.

00:19:01.892 --> 00:19:05.940
Hmm, was it the first time with her, or do you think there were others?

00:19:06.560 --> 00:19:09.026
I don't really think there were others.

00:19:09.026 --> 00:19:10.628
I'm with him all of the time.

00:19:10.628 --> 00:19:13.104
He never seems to want to go anywhere without me.

00:19:13.104 --> 00:19:18.748
But honestly, the issues with the kids bother me more than him actually cheating.

00:19:18.748 --> 00:19:21.482
They're constant and it feels like a lose-lose.

00:19:22.065 --> 00:19:25.604
Hmm, you clearly have a lot of feelings swirling inside you.

00:19:26.095 --> 00:19:27.797
Yeah, it's very complicated.

00:19:27.797 --> 00:19:29.018
Sorry for the rant.

00:19:29.858 --> 00:19:30.960
You can vent, babe.

00:19:31.319 --> 00:19:35.824
Basically, I just feel like I spread myself too thin, and sometimes it's thankless.

00:19:35.824 --> 00:19:39.307
You probably felt that way too.

00:19:39.768 --> 00:19:52.946
I did at times it was one, not two, thankfully Want to grab a drink.

00:19:52.946 --> 00:19:54.634
If you gave me some notice I could have you said you were adaptable.

00:19:54.634 --> 00:19:58.656
I am, but I have my work truck with me and not my personal.

00:19:58.676 --> 00:19:59.739
Do you get angry when you don't get your way?

00:19:59.739 --> 00:20:00.300
That sounds like an excuse.

00:20:00.300 --> 00:20:01.363
I rarely get my way.

00:20:01.363 --> 00:20:03.346
Are you single?

00:20:04.648 --> 00:20:04.970
Yes.

00:20:06.311 --> 00:20:07.917
I don't think it's out of left field.

00:20:07.917 --> 00:20:11.807
Wasn't already begging you to come over last Saturday?

00:20:12.876 --> 00:20:15.765
You getting my number from Melissa and reaching out to me.

00:20:16.916 --> 00:20:21.268
And on vacay and probably a few other occasions.

00:20:22.336 --> 00:20:23.923
You did, I really beg.

00:20:24.957 --> 00:20:28.563
I asked at least twice how do people usually reach out to each other?

00:20:28.563 --> 00:20:30.538
I asked at least twice how?

00:20:30.558 --> 00:20:31.401
do people usually reach out to each other?

00:20:31.401 --> 00:20:34.446
Why would I have thought you had any interest in me?

00:20:34.446 --> 00:20:40.579
Usually they do it when they don't live with someone.

00:20:40.579 --> 00:20:45.249
Maybe, maybe I could go on and on, but I do not want to pump your shit up too much.

00:20:45.249 --> 00:20:52.176
Thanks for saying that, but low comps at Hillside.

00:20:52.176 --> 00:20:53.019
You know how to ruin something nice.

00:20:53.019 --> 00:20:54.240
I frequent other places.

00:20:55.262 --> 00:21:04.240
John has showed me about five times the ring video of me walking you out on Saturday and my voice and my accent are killing me softly.

00:21:05.402 --> 00:21:06.624
Um what, yeah?

00:21:06.624 --> 00:21:07.345
Question mark.

00:21:07.345 --> 00:21:08.026
Question mark.

00:21:08.026 --> 00:21:08.726
Question mark.

00:21:09.426 --> 00:21:12.431
Yeah, he has cameras everywhere you cops.

00:21:12.730 --> 00:21:13.352
Jesus.

00:21:14.075 --> 00:21:15.279
He's like Christ.

00:21:15.279 --> 00:21:17.817
Are you guys hooking up Question mark?

00:21:17.817 --> 00:21:18.820
Question mark.

00:21:19.884 --> 00:21:22.280
OMG, I don't need drama dude.

00:21:22.816 --> 00:21:23.940
No, it's fine.

00:21:24.602 --> 00:21:25.203
Seriously.

00:21:25.756 --> 00:21:26.820
I am serious.

00:21:27.655 --> 00:21:29.222
You legit planted one on me.

00:21:29.996 --> 00:21:32.824
I know where the cameras are anyway.

00:21:32.824 --> 00:21:35.682
Duh, oh my God, bruins.

00:21:36.596 --> 00:21:38.282
So your slick move isn't on there.

00:21:39.135 --> 00:21:39.999
Of course not.

00:21:40.781 --> 00:21:43.522
Oh my God, I almost puke emoji.

00:21:45.297 --> 00:21:47.523
I was, it was a peck.

00:21:47.523 --> 00:21:50.281
Anyway, I kiss Carrie and gay Jeff too.

00:21:50.281 --> 00:21:55.480
Yeah, weak, lol, funny.

00:21:56.916 --> 00:21:58.403
So now he is jealous of me.

00:21:58.915 --> 00:22:01.124
No, I told you he likes you a lot.

00:22:01.796 --> 00:22:02.881
Which makes this worse.

00:22:03.555 --> 00:22:06.765
You said or did something at the bar last week and he goes.

00:22:06.765 --> 00:22:08.798
I like Brian more and more.

00:22:09.419 --> 00:22:10.440
I think he's a good dude.

00:22:10.440 --> 00:22:11.221
I like Brian more and more.

00:22:11.240 --> 00:22:11.961
I think he's a good dude too.

00:22:11.961 --> 00:22:12.262
Yeah, he is.

00:22:12.983 --> 00:22:13.344
Funny.

00:22:13.344 --> 00:22:15.227
What's your end game?

00:22:15.227 --> 00:22:16.949
What do you want from me?

00:22:21.535 --> 00:22:25.335
You will just confuse the shit out of yourself, because I am a lot of fun.

00:22:26.194 --> 00:22:30.618
I've complimented you today too, and kicked my nuts in.

00:22:30.999 --> 00:22:32.559
Oh my God, how.

00:22:32.980 --> 00:22:35.962
If I'd had more notice I could have grabbed a drink somewhere.

00:22:35.962 --> 00:22:41.287
So I'm all set with that's fine, but I'm not asking you again.

00:22:42.268 --> 00:22:48.231
Well, it was 7 pm and I'm super cool, so right now asking again.

00:22:50.035 --> 00:22:51.743
Coming to your house would have been bad for the both of us.

00:22:51.743 --> 00:22:54.884
For starters, you wouldn't have wanted me to leave.

00:22:56.036 --> 00:22:57.501
Now equals not.

00:22:57.501 --> 00:22:59.101
That sounds good.

00:22:59.634 --> 00:23:00.557
That's trouble.

00:23:00.557 --> 00:23:01.961
Dot, dot, dot, dot dot.

00:23:04.646 --> 00:23:05.028
Why.

00:23:06.076 --> 00:23:07.160
No, you're sensitive.

00:23:07.160 --> 00:23:08.042
Nice try.

00:23:08.042 --> 00:23:12.726
You don't think if I came over for a drink we would have got carried away?

00:23:14.256 --> 00:23:17.722
You said you were adaptable and tons of fun.

00:23:17.722 --> 00:23:20.186
I took that as an invite for an invite.

00:23:20.627 --> 00:23:21.328
Oh, okay.

00:23:22.415 --> 00:23:23.258
I'm 42.

00:23:23.258 --> 00:23:26.547
I know what happens when you invite someone over for a drink.

00:23:26.547 --> 00:23:29.356
What happens when you invite someone over for a drink.

00:23:29.376 --> 00:23:34.681
You're the master at avoidance, so you think it would just give it to you.

00:23:34.681 --> 00:23:36.522
Give it up.

00:23:37.943 --> 00:23:40.085
I've been a lot in my life.

00:23:40.085 --> 00:23:48.932
I have a little bit of a car, dm mindset Been through a lot.

00:23:48.932 --> 00:23:53.407
What am I avoiding?

00:23:55.801 --> 00:23:56.705
I'm not afraid to be direct.

00:23:56.705 --> 00:23:58.278
Some of my questions.

00:23:58.298 --> 00:24:00.444
Okay, which Ask again?

00:24:00.444 --> 00:24:07.193
Nope, tricks are for kids.

00:24:08.436 --> 00:24:10.913
I'm pretty sure we would have hooked up Okay.

00:24:12.358 --> 00:24:13.201
I can't say that.

00:24:13.201 --> 00:24:13.924
Question Mark.

00:24:14.757 --> 00:24:15.580
Of course you can.

00:24:18.895 --> 00:24:21.040
Did I miss any other questions?

00:24:23.487 --> 00:24:27.304
Probably Are you having a drink right now.

00:24:29.016 --> 00:24:30.501
None of that is true.

00:24:30.501 --> 00:24:38.470
I am not talking to any other guys and I have had issues with John and things are far from perfect.

00:24:38.470 --> 00:24:42.125
You just happen to know about him because we all hang out at the same bar.

00:24:42.125 --> 00:24:44.343
I'm sure you talk to other girls.

00:24:44.343 --> 00:24:45.760
That's what single people do.

00:24:45.760 --> 00:24:47.618
I'm not married and neither.

00:24:47.618 --> 00:24:49.345
Neither are you and neither is John.

00:24:51.115 --> 00:24:54.685
Was that your attempt at a lecture or deductive reasoning?

00:24:54.685 --> 00:24:56.260
What do you want from me?

00:24:58.756 --> 00:25:02.201
That's just how I think and feel you don't need to approve.

00:25:02.201 --> 00:25:07.406
I've already answered the last question a couple of times, I think.

00:25:08.115 --> 00:25:09.179
I am not judging you.

00:25:09.179 --> 00:25:11.266
Never have, never will.

00:25:12.615 --> 00:25:13.377
You shouldn't.

00:25:13.377 --> 00:25:18.488
I don't know what your private life is about, nor is it my business.

00:25:18.488 --> 00:25:29.547
My only point is that there's a difference between being married to someone and dating them, and we have no intentions of ever getting married.

00:25:29.547 --> 00:25:32.503
The point of dating is to not get tied down.

00:25:32.503 --> 00:25:40.506
If you're not confident, you should be in my mind anyway the first two, but I don't care too much about the other girl.

00:25:43.296 --> 00:25:45.984
Okay, so is he cool with you dating other people?

00:25:47.195 --> 00:25:55.949
And I'm not happy per se, just realistic that there's cracks and it's far from perfect.

00:25:55.949 --> 00:25:56.990
I doubt it.

00:25:56.990 --> 00:26:01.506
If he is seeing someone else, I wouldn't want to know either way.

00:26:01.506 --> 00:26:06.484
He probably feels the same and you probably feel that way about whoever you hook up with.

00:26:06.484 --> 00:26:07.799
I think that's normal.

00:26:08.944 --> 00:26:09.267
Okay.

00:26:09.755 --> 00:26:10.840
You don't agree with me.

00:26:10.840 --> 00:26:14.202
Do you want to meet up at a bar?

00:26:15.556 --> 00:26:17.621
I wasn't suggesting anytime soon.

00:26:17.621 --> 00:26:20.728
I know you're with your friend, I meant my house.

00:26:22.275 --> 00:26:23.641
Probably after eight.

00:26:24.336 --> 00:26:28.166
Okay, if you don't want to, that's fine, no pressure.

00:26:30.096 --> 00:26:31.462
I will A drink.

00:26:32.435 --> 00:26:35.778
And then I put a question mark on that comment what do you drink?

00:26:35.778 --> 00:26:37.063
Are you out now?

00:26:39.875 --> 00:26:43.185
Sorry, I'll drink whiskey if that's what you're having.

00:26:44.055 --> 00:26:46.845
Ha ha, send me a pic of you two.

00:26:46.845 --> 00:26:49.963
Ha ha, stranger, stranger.

00:26:51.416 --> 00:26:53.022
I was at the hilly all weekend.

00:26:53.576 --> 00:26:54.599
Have not heard from you.

00:26:55.055 --> 00:26:56.280
Phone works both ways.

00:26:57.435 --> 00:26:58.560
Thought you were all set.

00:27:00.036 --> 00:27:02.684
With talking Question mark Nope.

00:27:03.174 --> 00:27:04.500
Hmm, you sure.

00:27:04.500 --> 00:27:11.836
So that was pretty much the gist of their text conversation until the night in question, and we'll get to that.

00:27:13.819 --> 00:27:17.026
Yeah, karen, she was the bold one.

00:27:17.026 --> 00:27:19.029
He should have known better.

00:27:19.029 --> 00:27:23.987
Ignoring her advances would have been the right move, especially knowing she was with John.

00:27:23.987 --> 00:27:26.439
The whole situation feels shady.

00:27:26.859 --> 00:27:32.769
And can you imagine how humiliating it must have been for John, his so-called friend, texting his girlfriend.

00:27:32.769 --> 00:27:33.730
What a betrayal.

00:27:33.730 --> 00:27:36.262
I wonder if he ever found out about those messages.

00:27:37.296 --> 00:27:43.888
I mean, this flirtation was ongoing and it seemed to ramp up just weeks before John's death.

00:27:43.888 --> 00:27:58.170
What's even more intriguing is the timeline Five days before the tragedy, brian Higgins texts Karen and she completely brushes him off until the night at the waterfall when she walks in that night.

00:27:58.269 --> 00:28:06.647
And he texted her Well it's all weird and, like we said there's, these are screenshots that was provided to the court.

00:28:06.647 --> 00:28:12.597
These weren't messages that were pulled up with a warrant or anything.

00:28:12.597 --> 00:28:21.888
So I'm pretty sure that there's some shit missing because, like Julie said, five days in between there there was absolutely no communication.

00:28:21.888 --> 00:28:26.624
It's like she just completely brushed him off.

00:28:26.624 --> 00:28:33.982
Brian Higgins probably confided in his friend brian albert about those little exchanges and that peck that she gave him at john's house.

00:28:33.982 --> 00:28:41.989
That must have been a dagger to john's heart, if he had any inkling oh smoochy, smoochy, how disgusting is that.

00:28:42.951 --> 00:28:46.538
And then there were the events at the hillside bar.

00:28:46.538 --> 00:28:48.300
It's also all so tangled.

00:28:48.300 --> 00:28:51.465
Did Karen meet Higgins and Albert before she got with John?

00:28:51.465 --> 00:28:53.789
That evening of the 28th, 29th?

00:28:53.789 --> 00:29:01.828
If you remember, she did ask John to go meet at the Hillside for drinks before her hot water went lukewarm.

00:29:02.895 --> 00:29:05.904
Yeah, her hot water went lukewarm my ass.

00:29:05.904 --> 00:29:11.907
I think she was at the bar and I think Brian Higgins and Brian Albert was at the bar too.

00:29:11.907 --> 00:29:18.667
That was never investigated, really, because they just started the investigation at the hillside where they was all at.

00:29:18.667 --> 00:29:23.047
If I had to put my money on it, I almost guarantee that they were Just my opinion.

00:29:24.675 --> 00:29:50.390
Yeah, I believe that they were at the Hillside Bar prior to going to the waterfall and I don't think that John had any idea that Karen was over at the hillside because she was supposed to be at home waiting on the plumber, Because at 8 o'clock on a Friday night that's when the plumber comes or is on call.

00:29:50.815 --> 00:29:53.137
And it's all really weird If you watch the video.

00:29:53.137 --> 00:30:00.823
At the waterfall she walks in and Brian Higgins is clearly trying to look at her, get her attention.

00:30:00.823 --> 00:30:06.426
She completely acts like she doesn't know him at all, like she completely ignores him.

00:30:06.426 --> 00:30:10.229
So that theory is worth exploring.

00:30:10.229 --> 00:30:15.025
After Higgins and Albert left the bar, he joined the group at the waterfall, not knowing.

00:30:15.025 --> 00:30:20.047
John and Karen would then appear happily, but behind the scenes things were unraveling.

00:30:20.888 --> 00:30:21.289
Right.

00:30:21.289 --> 00:30:25.440
And then there's Karen acting like she didn't even know Higgins at the bar.

00:30:25.440 --> 00:30:28.464
It's all so calculated, or is it?

00:30:29.066 --> 00:30:30.869
Is it a classic case of deception?

00:30:30.869 --> 00:30:38.722
But we have to ask was Karen a puppet master in this drama or did she become the victim of circumstance?

00:30:38.722 --> 00:30:47.347
Much like John Also watching the video at the waterfall, john O'Keefe was being real observant man.

00:30:47.347 --> 00:30:50.124
You could tell he was looking around and checking everything out.

00:30:50.124 --> 00:30:56.858
And another weird aspect that I thought was only because I'm Irish and I've been at a bar in situations like this to.

00:30:56.858 --> 00:31:01.669
Brian Higgins and Brian Albert were doing what I like to call peacocking.

00:31:01.669 --> 00:31:03.481
They were like showing their tail feathers.

00:31:03.481 --> 00:31:08.346
They were play fighting and they kept looking over at John and Karen to see if they was looking.

00:31:08.346 --> 00:31:15.218
It's awful strange man, because they were drunk and they were hyped up.

00:31:15.218 --> 00:31:18.125
And right before they left the bar you can see Brian Higgins motioned into John O'Keefe come outside.

00:31:18.125 --> 00:31:19.509
You know, hey, come outside.

00:31:19.509 --> 00:31:24.666
And I'm not sure if that was like hey, come outside so we can talk, come outside so I can tell you something.

00:31:24.666 --> 00:31:25.978
It's real interesting.

00:31:25.978 --> 00:31:30.449
I would die and kill just to hear that conversation you something?

00:31:30.568 --> 00:31:31.131
It's real interesting.

00:31:31.131 --> 00:31:32.775
I would die and kill just to hear that conversation.

00:31:32.775 --> 00:31:48.044
Yeah, and I didn't think that you know there was any animosity between Higgins and John, because whenever John walked into the bar, you clearly see him greeting Higgins and they exchange a hug and pats on the back.

00:31:49.507 --> 00:31:50.509
But it was awful funny.

00:31:50.509 --> 00:31:52.403
You got to go watch the video.

00:31:52.403 --> 00:31:53.755
It's very telling.

00:31:54.215 --> 00:32:01.742
We will post the waterfall video on our podcast 69 South Facebook page.

00:32:01.742 --> 00:32:05.865
Hopefully you guys will all go follow and like and share.

00:32:06.515 --> 00:32:08.983
We'd love to know your opinion after you watch this video.

00:32:08.983 --> 00:32:20.965
Now, before we get off and let you guys go on this episode, I would like to get into talking about the gruesome autopsy and the weird injuries that they say happened from a vehicle crash.

00:32:23.317 --> 00:32:25.084
It's a chilling topic.

00:32:25.084 --> 00:32:31.022
The autopsy revealed blunt force trauma to the head, specifically a three centimeter gash.

00:32:31.022 --> 00:32:32.817
And that's just the start.

00:32:32.817 --> 00:32:39.298
He also suffered from hypothermia, two black eyes, a broken nose and a dislocated jaw.

00:32:40.799 --> 00:32:46.316
Also there were some weird markings on his arms that we will also post these pictures.

00:32:46.316 --> 00:32:51.228
They definitely look like dog scratches and dog bites because some of them are parallel.

00:32:51.228 --> 00:32:57.988
They even had a specialist, an expert, testify that they were definitely some kind of a dog bite.

00:32:57.988 --> 00:33:04.387
I guess they could tell, just like I said, the way they were parallel and two black eyes and a broken jaw.

00:33:04.387 --> 00:33:07.845
I mean to me that sounds like a straight up ass whooping man.

00:33:07.845 --> 00:33:11.305
That does not sound like somebody ran into you with a car.

00:33:11.305 --> 00:33:21.230
It's hard to wrap your head around how all that happened with a car moving at a top speed in reverse at just 24 miles an hour.

00:33:21.915 --> 00:33:23.382
That doesn't add up at all.

00:33:23.382 --> 00:33:29.008
When Karen Reed was arrested three days after the incident, it felt like the case was already wrapped up.

00:33:35.075 --> 00:33:42.394
She faced charges of manslaughter, negligent motor vehicle, homicide and leaving the scene of an accident resulting in death, and yet she pleaded not guilty, claiming she would fight the charges.

00:33:42.394 --> 00:33:47.768
I just cannot help but think there were things the investigators didn't fully explore.

00:33:47.768 --> 00:33:50.884
It's almost as if they had an open and shut case in mind.

00:33:51.595 --> 00:33:56.907
It's concerning, especially considering Karen's inconsistent memory of events.

00:33:56.907 --> 00:34:07.768
When she initially left to look for John, she drove to the waterfall, which we know from video surveillance, and then left and headed toward Jen McCabe's house.

00:34:08.737 --> 00:34:10.322
That brings us to a puzzling point.

00:34:10.322 --> 00:34:14.606
How did Carrie Roberts show up at Jen McCabe's house at the same time as Karen?

00:34:14.606 --> 00:34:17.423
Jen didn't even have Carrie's number to coordinate.

00:34:19.476 --> 00:34:34.309
Well, jen drives Karen's car back to John's house while Carrie follows, but they didn't even seem to notice that the car was missing a hotel light housing until later, and it was just described as quote-unquote cracked.

00:34:34.309 --> 00:34:40.327
You'd think in such a chaotic situation the state of the car would be the last thing on their minds.

00:34:40.896 --> 00:34:46.989
It's baffling that instead of heading straight to 34 Fairview, they drove all the way back to 1 Meadow Avenue.

00:34:46.989 --> 00:34:51.539
It raises so many questions about their priorities, their decision making.

00:34:51.539 --> 00:34:52.983
At that night.

00:34:52.983 --> 00:34:55.835
It seems like they were wasting time for some reason.

00:34:55.856 --> 00:35:03.737
To me, Exactly it does, and we need to consider what really happened that night and how these events unfolded.

00:35:03.737 --> 00:35:10.670
Were they fully aware of the gravity of the situation or were they in a state of confusion and panic?

00:35:11.594 --> 00:35:14.224
We'll explore these questions and more in our next episode.

00:35:14.224 --> 00:35:16.844
As always, we would love to hear your thoughts.

00:35:16.844 --> 00:35:20.405
What do you think about Karen's actions and the timeline of events?

00:35:21.394 --> 00:35:29.688
So join us next time as we unpack the investigation and examine the moral implications of the choices made by those involved.

00:35:29.688 --> 00:35:31.657
We want to hear your thoughts too.

00:35:32.239 --> 00:35:36.438
Don't forget to subscribe, leave us a review and share your opinions on social media.

00:35:36.438 --> 00:35:39.186
Together, we can navigate these complex issues.

00:35:40.309 --> 00:35:53.806
See you in the next episode where we uncover the blue blood family tree of the Massachusetts State Police and the Canton PD of the Boston's Boys in Blue.

00:35:54.514 --> 00:36:23.588
Until then, have a good day, good evening whatever, we'll see you next time.